Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Buffalo Box

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Seems like the consensus is that the underlying concept is notable and worthy of being covered in some fashion - perhaps as part of a larger article, or in another article - even if the name is poorly chosen and the article in its current form inadequate (e.g per Epinoia's argument). Calling this a "keep" with the understanding that it is no prejudice towards merging or renaming the topic, although further discussion would be needed for either. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:12, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Buffalo Box (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Article doesn't have any extensive coverage, so I think it fails WP:GNG Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 01:17, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 01:17, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 01:18, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Added some references. Curb Box appears to be the primary name and there are a quite a number of plumbing websites and blogs mentioning it (although I wouldn't neccesarily use them as sources). --Spacepine (talk) 11:45, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Those are rather parochial U.S. semi-slang, though, which is possibly why web logs are the sources that you are coming up with. You will find that in India and several other parts of the English-speaking world, such as here and ISBN 9781139470414 chapter 26 for just two examples, that this is formally the boundary stopcock (or stop tap or stop valve), terminating the communication pipe that comes from the mains. See stopcock#Water service for how poorly Wikipedia covers this, compared to the book chapter that I have just cited. Uncle G (talk) 13:36, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Uncle G, should we merge the articles? --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 13:49, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with stopcock#Water service per UncleG and Tyw7 --Spacepine (talk) 14:24, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I was thinking about merger, too, but perhaps not to stopcock, because I think that Wikipedia should have a larger subject that explains all of the different pipes and valves, and things like why they are angled upwards and who is generally considered legally responsible for them, together. This is not really pop culture, per the deletion sorting. This is very much the sort of humdrum utilitarian subject that one would expect to find in a ″household″ or engineering encyclopaedia or suchlike. We should tap a WikiProject for some topic suggestions. Project:WikiProject Civil engineering, Project:WikiProject Home Living, and Project:WikiProject Water might be worth asking. Uncle G (talk) 15:11, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Uncle G, how do you del sort into Wiki Projects? --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 21:27, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:19, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included at list of Engineering-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:19, 8 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included at WikiProject Home Living. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 00:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included at WikiProject Water. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 00:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included at WikiProject Civil engineering. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 00:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep for now. Some research led me to a variety of sources ranging in reliability. While this is the case, curb boxes are a covered topic that receives enough attention to keep an article. Clearly this is not within my realm of expertise, but I trust that delegating responsibility to a plumbing WikiProject, if it exists, to patch up the article. This was suggested above, but I personally believe that the topic has enough potential to warrant its own article in this instance. However, a general piping article may be more aptly suited for the task of covering curb boxes if it comes into existence. Until then, this is fine in my eyes. Utopes (talk) 22:08, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Utopes, do you suggest the article be renamed? Did you find sufficient source to pass WP:GNG? --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 22:28, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes to the rename. After looking into it further, I would personally prefer to rename the topic to be Curb Box. I added sources, but they aren't great. There was an old news article, and coverage by MW Dictionary. Will keep searching. The amount of coverage it has from a search seems to prove notability, but it's verifiable, reliable sources that it really lacks. If I could compare it to something, it's like finding sources for an article about a Chair. Everybody knows what it is, but you aren't going to find sources that cover it. That kind of stinks for the "Keep" case, but I'll continue on. Nothing decisive yet. Utopes (talk) 22:34, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Utopes, well the chair article talks about its history too. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 04:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  True. I'm just referring to finding reliable sources about chairs. Searching for the word "chair" won't give you anything too great, so "history of the chair" would be the course of action........ wait..... As I was typing this, I realized that I should try more detailed searches, such as "history of the curb box." Already found an actually good source with this new mindset. Utopes (talk) 21:59, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - all this article does is give a definition of the term, but Wikipeidia is not a dictionary WP:NOTDIC - article does not establish why this term is notable - therefore, delete - Epinoia (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete this is a dictionary not an encyclopedic article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:18, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment @Tyw7:, I'll admit that I did forget about this AFD discussion for a bit, but after the most recent !vote, I saw it appear in my watchlist again. For that, I'm sorry that I didn't get the sources back when this was first being talked about. However, I'm now confident that keeping the article is the best bet, and here's why. Utopes (talk) 02:38, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  First off, I don't believe that WP:NOTDIC applies here. Sure, all that is currently present in the article is the definition of the curb box, and the origin of the term Buffalo box. However, in this case, WP:WORDISSUBJECT applies. A curb box is very commonly used and worked with in utility services, and is perfectly encyclopedic. However, the most misleading part of the article is the title. The term "Buffalo Box" is a regional term in the city of Buffalo, apparently. So, you and I were under the assumption that it was called a "Curb box", which is partially correct. The topic that we are actually looking for is the "Water stop box", which are found on curbs and are ALSO called curb boxes. I received the connection from this source https://www.mudomaha.com/blog/water-stop-box , and further sources seem to corroborate this claim. http://www.summitwater.us/what-is-a-curb-stop-box-csb/ , http://www.dmww.com/water-service/service-lines/overview/ , https://www.mswmag.com/editorial/2016/05/quick_curb_box_replacement https://books.google.com/books?id=NypKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&source=bl&ots=McT-t5-94o&sig=ACfU3U0yE8ZR6y0_ego8Q5uCo6Vd6KiQ1g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi33onPzbPkAhVIMawKHQC8BzgQ6AEwGnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

  Dmww.com and Summitwater.com seem to be verifiable sources. It appears that Water stop box is the general article that we were looking for, with Curb box being a redirect.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.