Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daniel Isaac Faure

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 06:55, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Isaac Faure (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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No evidence found of subject meeting WP:GNG or WP:BIO. The person existed, but "notability" seems to be the opinion of the creator. All references I've found are primary sources, unreliable sources, or trivial mentions. That the name "Daniel Faure" appears in genealogy databases and Virginia County Records is no more a claim to inclusion than a name in a phone book. Wikipedia is not a place for genealogical entries of non-notable subjects, even if their descendants may plausibly be notable. (notability is not inherited). Notability requires verifiable evidence. --Animalparty! (talk) 17:26, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Virginia-related deletion discussions. --Animalparty! (talk) 17:35, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. --Animalparty! (talk) 17:37, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - The article fails the core content policy of no original research. It is well written and interesting, but details about Daniel Faure are scant in the article (and elsewhere I look) and the article would perhaps be better in a genealogical magazine, but isn't encyclopedic, in my opinion. Smmurphy^(Talk) 02:17, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete When county records are cited to show someone is notable, that is a sure sign they are not. County records are primary not secondary sources and thus can not show anyone is notable. Wikipedia is not the place to publish breaking historical research.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:24, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep This artile shows how Wikipedia can help researchers with following:

• Examples of French Huguenots that migrated from England to the US
• Secondary Sources include historians porviding their interpetation on these events
• Daniel Faure and his children help found the Mankin Town village
• Sources include documented family trees and discussions
• Examples of Abjuration made in April 1685 by Daniel Faure

--Greg Henderson 8 May 2018. —Preceding undated comment added 03:25, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

hi greghenderson2006, its easier to sign using 4 tildes (it also automatically adds time/date), thanks. Coolabahapple (talk) 21:27, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Article fails basic test of requiring multiple independent, reliable, secondary sources. Glendoremus (talk) 05:10, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete this well written article about a non-Wikinotable subject. After the AfD nomination, time was allowed for additional sourcing but, so far, only primary ones seem to have been located. It's one of those cases where a suggestion to delete is made with regret, since many lousy texts (certainly much worse than this one) are allowed to stay up on account of their notable subject. But them's the rules. -The Gnome (talk) 06:29, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete -- I agree with the last comment: it is a moderately good article about a person who is wholly NN. We cannot allow an article about every individual who arrived in America in a certain period. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:26, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think that this wiki article is important in that Daniel Isaac Faure was one of the early French Huguenot that migrated from England to the colony of Virginia in 1700 to escape pursecution by the French King. Daniel's descendents are here today because of his brave attept to leave his homeland to find a new place in America. Daniel Isaac Faure is notable for the following reason:

• He has significant coverage in genealogy circles as an early French Huguenot
• His unusual journy to America in the 1700s is important as it was sponsored by the Virgina governor to develop the lands along the James River
• Daniel Isaac Faure is worthy of notice because he was one of the first Faure to arrive in America in 1700 to start a new life where he could practice his religion with out pursecution
• Secondary sources include:
  • Virgina County Records
  • The French Huguenot Frontier Settlement of Manakin Town
  • Manikan Town The French Huguenot Settlement in Virginia
  • History of the Huguenot Imigration to America, Volume 1, by Charles W. Baird, D.D
• Primary sources include:
  • Find A Grave Website
  • Geni Website
  • Family Search Website — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greghenderson2006 (talk • contribs) 21:06, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Greghenderson2006: please read Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Notability (people) and Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. If you're short on time, read The answer to life, the universe, and everything. Being "one of several hundred French Huguenots that crossed the Atlantic" does not explain why this person (or his descendants) warrant an article. You claim "He has significant coverage in genealogy circles as an early French Huguenot" Prove it with sources. Why is the first Faure noteworthy to anyone but other Faures? (If this is another one of your family member articles, please recognize your inherent bias). Remember, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a genealogy database. Ultimately, neither your opinion of the subject, nor mine, are relevant to establishing to notability: we need significant coverage in reliable sources that have already connected the dots of history and firmly established notability. Of the "secondary sources" you've provided, all are trivial, passing mentions at best:

Virgina County Records devotes perhaps one sentence to Daniel Isaac Faure (the brother of Pierre Faure?), and then apparently discusses primary sources about his son, mainly dealing with property and estimating kinship. This is trivia from an encyclopedic point of view.

The French Huguenot Frontier Settlement of Manakin Town appears to not mention anyone by the name of Faure at all, thus it is original research or at best improper synthesis, to glean or infer 'notability' from such a source.

Manikan Town The French Huguenot Settlement in Virginia contains a single reference to "The widow Faure and four children." in a list of refugees.

The History of the Huguenot Imigration to America, Volume 1 devotes three sentence fragments to a "Daniel Fore, son of Issac Fore and Anne Tibault", and who exactly is this article about: Daniel Isaac Fauré (1624-1701)? Jean Pierre Faure (1675-1745)? The whole early Faure clan?

As I said earlier, the mere inclusion of names in historic documents does not establish notability. Trivial mention in secondary sources does not establish notability. Notability is not inherited by subjects being merely associated with notable events, periods, or people. We cannot have subjects in Wikipedia that have not been significantly covered by multiple sources that are reliable and independent of the subject. If you want to write about the Faure family, you're welcome to do so anywhere else, maybe even get it edited and legitimately published by a magazine or journal, after which a possible claim to notability might exist. --Animalparty! (talk) 23:23, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Animalparty: Thank you for your reply and comments regarding Daniel Isaac Faure. As I understand you must police bogus or not worthy articles, I feel that you should make an exception in this case as to promote a more "Agile' approach to incremental articles that can build upon the wiki community for support. In my research on the Faure > Ford ancestry, I often turn to Wikipedia to gather information. If one does a search today on Wikipedia, you find little information on the Faure family and the French Huguenots that came to America. If we define "encyclopedia" as giving information on many subjects or on many aspects of one subject, then this article sheds light on how some of the French Huguenot made that journey to America and landed in one of the original thirteen colonies. I've added more primary and seconday source information and I'am in the process of finding much more. Please allow sufficient time for me to follow all the wiki guidelines before deletion. Thanks! --Greg Henderson 7 May 2018.

• Comment, did this fellow even make it to the US? History and Families, McCracken County, Kentucky, 1824-1989 suggests here that he died before leaving England or at sea (probably one reason why the article has a dearth of info on him), im wondering why the article has his title given it is mainly about family and descendants, if this is notable, which doesnt look likely, shouldn't it be named "Faure family" or some such? Coolabahapple (talk) 01:10, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 01:11, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, hi Greghenderson2006, i agree that this article can help researchers but the same can be said about numerous wikiarticles, what is needed are reliable independent secondary sources (as brought out by editors above) going through your dotpoints above: French Huguenots to North America are already covered at Exodus#Huguenots (it definitely needs more referencing though), sources are already discussed by above editors, Manikan town/village is covered at History#Powhatan County, Virginia (i note that there were 700 to 800 Huguenot "founders", what makes the Faures more significant than the others?), sources of family trees/discussions are primary, examples of Abjuration can be included there if they are notable/significant. Coolabahapple (talk) 22:14, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to Comment, hi Coolabahapple, thank you for your comments. They sound a bit more encouraging. I noticed that Wikipedia has many articles subject to the deletion policy everyday, so this must be a routine screening process for new articles. I picked a subject that is not easy to write about because of the lack of solid information. Other wiki articles I have completed were somewhat easier to locate primary and secondary sources. In any case, I took this on as a challenge because I wanted to establish a wiki articles on a family coming to America that was under religious persecution. Daniel Isaac Faure was of interest in that all of the primary sources show that he was the first Faure and his descendants to come to America. The secondary sources appear to be discussion about this event and in particular his children. Since Wikipedia did not have many articles about Daniel Faure or other French Huguenot coming to America, I thought this would be a good article to write. I am in the process of finding more secondary sources. There seems to be plenty of primary sources, e.g. the list of names that have been authenticated as founders of the Huguenot colony at Manakin or Huguenots settling in early colonial Virginia. They include: FAURE, FORD, Pierre Jean, Elizabeth, Widow Faure, Anne, Daniel. --Greg Henderson 9 May 2018.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.