Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deep Knowledge Ventures

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  11:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deep Knowledge Ventures (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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I believe that the value of this VC is overvalued. No sources --Gruznov (talk) 08:22, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:41, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:41, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:41, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Just another investment firm. This one managed to create a buzz in 2014 by having some news outlets mention "A Venture Capital Firm Just Named An Algorithm To Its Board Of Directors". Smart marketing, but that's about it at this stage. This firm may become notable in the future, but does not make the cut now. Olivier (talk) 15:21, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - not notable. Article written by a bunch of SPAs with COI. Citobun (talk) 18:33, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

After digging a bit, I have found that there seems to be quite a web of SPA sockpuppets working on subjects related to the founder of this firm. User:Deepknowledgev, who worked on this article, also created the article Dmitry Kaminsky, which was deleted, recreated, deleted, recreated, and then deleted again. Then the article Dmitry Kaminskiy was created. Slightly different spelling but appears to be the same person, and is linked from Deep Knowledge Ventures? Not to mention the single-purpose accounts User:Biokhimik, User:Adyod, User:Georges Medawar, User:The dank tank. Seems like a web of COI self-promotion using sockpuppets to avoid scrutiny. Citobun (talk) 18:46, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep and restore to an edition with external sources and rebuild the article. I noticed that this company continued to make financial news well into 2015 [1][2] so I think it has just about enough persistent notability. Deryck C. 21:13, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• I've reverted to the last clean version in the article with the reliable sources. Cunard (talk) 06:30, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete for now at best as none of this suggests a better solidly notable article. SwisterTwister talk 02:08, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the significant coverage in reliable sources.
  1. Koebler, Jason (2014-05-13). "The First Robot Venture Capitalist Won't Do Interviews". Vice. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.

     The article notes:

  2. Brown, Sophie (2014-09-30). "Could computers take over the boardroom?". CNN. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.

     The article notes:

  3. Wile, Rob (2014-05-13). "A Venture Capital Firm Just Named An Algorithm To Its Board Of Directors — Here's What It Actually Does". Business Insider. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.
  4. "Algorithm appointed board director". BBC. 2014-05-16. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.

     The article notes:

  5. Taylor, Jordyn (2014-05-13). "V.C. Firm Names Robot To Board of Directors". The New York Observer. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.
  6. Dormehl, Luke (2014-12-01). "Your job automated". Wired. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.

     The article notes:

  7. Raven, David (2014-05-16). "Investment firm hires COMPUTER as new boss to sit on board of directors". Daily Mirror. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.

     The article notes:

  8. Sharwood, Simon (2014-05-18). "Software 'appointed to board' of venture capital firm". The Register. Archived from the original on 2016-01-03. Retrieved 2016-01-03.

     The article notes:

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Deep Knowledge Ventures to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 06:30, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• The Vice article provides substantial coverage about Deep Knowledge Ventures: that it was founded by Russian Dmitry Kamenskiy, "shrouded a bit in mystery", has a board of "five anonymous partners", and has invested in InSilico Medicine and a second company through Vital's help. The Register calls a Vital a "stunt" and explains in detail why. Although Vital is likely a stunt, it has given Deep Knowledge Ventures significant coverage in reputable publications, allowing it to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline.

  The sources are from the United States (CNN, The New York Observer, Vice, and Business Insider) and the United Kingdom (BBC, Daily Mirror, The Register, and Wired UK). Although the sources are primarily about Vital, there is enough material about Deep Knowledge Ventures itself to establish notability. Cunard (talk) 06:30, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Wait. An investment company is using a computer to help make investment decisions AND it is "shrouded in mystery" and has five anonymous partners. Big deal! They managed to get into a few media and are now pushing really hard to have their name in Wikipedia, with the help of an army of sockpuppets. Let's remember WP:NOTSOAPBOX. Olivier (talk) 16:52, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note. The article about its founder Dmitry Kaminsky has already been created and deleted 3 times since September 8, 2014. The lookalike Dmitry Kaminskiy has been created 3 times and deleted twice since November 11, 2015. It is now tagged for speedy deletion. Olivier (talk) 16:52, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Deep Knowledge Ventures' using a computer to sit on its board of directors to make investment decisions likely is a publicity ploy. But since BBC, Business Insider, CNN, the Daily Mirror, The New York Observer, The Register, Vice, and Wired UK consider that worth covering, per Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, Wikipedia also should cover it.

Retaining the article is not necessarily good for Deep Knowledge Ventures' reputation. Wikipedia can include the information from The Register article that reflects negatively on the firm's use of the computer Vital to make investment decisions:

Cunard (talk) 19:31, 3 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The BBC article is essentially saying "The idea of the algorithm voting is a gimmick. It is not different from the algorithm making a suggestion and the board voting on it". Period. That's not exactly the "significant coverage" requested by WP:GNG. Olivier (talk) 09:33, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I listed BBC's "Algorithm appointed board director" article here to demonstrate that the Hong Kong company Deep Knowledge Ventures was the subject of an article by an international source. The article "addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content" (quoting from Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. Two more detailed articles are from Vice and The Register, which provide significant coverage of the company and its motivation for having the computer Vital on its board of directors. Cunard (talk) 05:53, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment When the international source says: "we have a tiny article, but really there is nothing to say about it, it's just a spin", then it is a massive stretch to say that it addresses the topic in any detail. It just hints at savvy PR firms pushing material into media in order to justify a Wikipedia entry, which will further justify new articles. Let's not propagate an empty spin. WP:NOT#SOAP. Olivier (talk) 10:22, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Vice and The Register have longer articles than the BBC's article and cover Deep Knowledge Ventures "directly and in detail". WP:NOT#SOAP says: This Wikipedia article "can report objectively" about "advocacy" "as long as an attempt is made to describe the topic from a neutral point of view". It is possible to accomplish this with sources like The Register. I have incorporated The Register's content into the article: Cunard (talk) 06:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. You have conveniently selected one out of the 5 points of WP:NOT#SOAP that is not applicable in the case here. The following two are relevant. Wikipedia is not for:

4. Self-promotion

5. Advertising, marketing or public relations

Where are all the sockpuppets gone? 17:08, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

The article cannot be considered advertising with the inclusion of reliably sourced negative material about the subject. Cunard (talk) 01:03, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing really negative there. The new paragraph simply says that the company is quite aggressive at marketing itself... which it is, indeed! Olivier (talk) 08:46, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deep Knowledge Ventures wants readers to think that it added the robot VITAL to its board because VITAL actually makes decisions for it. The paragraph is negative because it disputes Deep Knowledge Ventures' story, calling it "a strong whiff of stunt and/or promotion", which puts the company in an unflattering light. It means the story is no longer about VITAL but about the stunt. The company's statements will receive more scrutiny in the future, and people more will be more predisposed to dismissing their seemingly surprising announcements as merely stunts/promotion.

With the critical commentary from The Register, the article can no longer be considered promotional for the company.

Cunard (talk) 07:03, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• All publications in the media in some way connected with a funny story about a robot among the members of the Board of Directors. It's all. No one else wrote anything about the activities of the DKV, its transactions and companies. This is a direct indication of the significance of this fund. --Gruznov (talk) 18:47, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep – Meets WP:CORPDEPTH: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:37, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.