Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Herman Mattson

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:35, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Herman Mattson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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WP:BEFORE shows zero sources about this person; thus failing WP:GNG. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 11:46, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Sportspeople. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 11:46, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Rugby union and New Zealand. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:13, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I'm not finding much about him. I note that Australian reports of the 1925 All Blacks matches often refer to him as "A. Mattson" - perhaps he used his middle name? The National Library of New Zealand has info that was a Bank officer with the National Bank of New Zealand, Auckland, and on the Executive Council of NZ Bank Officers' Guild in 1939. [1] (not that that would contribute to notability, but would round out a bio). In Papers Past, the NZ digitised newspapers, there are an article about an Alfred Mattson who was a champion dirt track rider selected for the Tourist Trophy Races on the Isle of Man in 1933 [2], and in 1935 a mention that Alfred Mattson held the NZ record for 500cc machines [3]. If that is the same person, perhaps some motor bike racing wins or records would add to his notability - someone may know or find more about that. RebeccaGreen (talk) 13:35, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment The motorcycle / speedway rider was Alf Mattson. Paora (talk) 01:49, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Doesnt seem to have significant coverage from WP:SIRS BTSfangir1 (talk) 11:08, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Thanks to Paora for the clarification about the motorcycle / speedway rider. I would say Redirect to the 1925 New Zealand rugby union tour of New South Wales, but none of the articles about All Blacks tours seem to have lists of the team members. Surely that would be useful information, and a way to avoid having articles about those who were not notable but still enable readers of WP to find information? There are plenty of sources which name the members of the teams. (I am not offering to add such lists. I note with interest that WP articles on All Blacks tours are very poorly referenced, and many have no in-line citations, nor do they have any tagging. It looks like the Rugby Union wikiproject has a lot of work to do!) RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:37, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep following expansion. Paora (talk) 12:48, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Thoughts on the expansion?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 12:46, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - While some of the references could still be improved, the article has been significantly expanded since it was nominated for deletion. I think there is enough here now to get the article over the line. TheSwamphen (talk) 20:33, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. None of the additional references constitute the required SIGCOV for GNG and SPORTSCRIT. 1, 6. NZ Rugby: governing org, not independent N. 2. Birth record: primary N. 3. Auckland Star: name in a list N. 4. Daily Telegraph: passing mention N. 5. The Sun: passing mention N. 7. Manawatu Standard: mentioned in routine play-by-play match recap, not SIGCOV or secondary N. 8. The Star: 1.5 sentences, nowhere near SIGCOV N. 9. Auckland Star: part of a sentence in routine injury report, not SIGCOV N. 10-13: more primary, non-independent sources N.
  Just because it is possible to string out a healthy amount of prose from primary and non-independent sources (almost everything is cited to his governing sports organization, which is explicitly considered non-independent) does not mean the subject is actually notable.
  EDIT: Keep, the encyclopedia entry is probably enough for SPORTSCRIT. JoelleJay (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Added further references, including to the authoritative Encyclopedia of New Zealand Rugby by Palenski, Chester and McMillan (4th edition, 2005) and used it instead of his profile on the All Blacks stats website wherever possible. Paora (talk) 10:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  How much coverage of him is in that book? JoelleJay (talk) 00:02, 20 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  The Encyclopedia of New Zealand Rugby does exactly what it says on the tin. It includes all players who have played for the All Blacks, and lists their vital statistics (dates and places of birth and death, playing position, number of appearances, date range of appearances, points scored, and first-class record) and gives a potted biography, generally between one and three paragraphs long. In Mattson's case the biography is two paragraphs long, and particularly discusses the injury problems that plagued his career, and notes that he later coached the Parnell club, which is not included in other references. Paora (talk) 10:56, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  How many sentences is "two paragraphs"? I'll reconsider my !vote if it actually is SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 21:52, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  7. Paora (talk) 20:03, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Enough coverage to satisfy GNG. If delete, redirect should be to player list that Herman is currently linked from, rather than tour article. Jevansen (talk) 22:31, 22 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep or delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 10:02, 24 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The Encyclopedia of New Zealand Rugby entry is what pushes it over the GNG line. Schwede66 00:22, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Per the expansion and User:Schwede66. RossEvans19 (talk) 14:08, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Keep Good to see the improvements to this article. Blackballnz (talk) 07:35, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.