Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lalitham Sundaram

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 05:50, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lalitham Sundaram (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFILM. Only references are cast listings and film updates, lacking significant coverage otherwise. Eternal Shadow Talk 16:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Eternal Shadow Talk 16:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Eternal Shadow Talk 16:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Non-notable future film, fails WP:NFF Donaldd23 (talk) 17:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The film Lalitham Sundaram is the movie in which the lady super star of Malayalam Film Industry, Manju Warrier appears in a lead role. All her movies has a wide range acceptance in Malayalam Film Industry.[1] After the succesfull films like, Pranayavarnangal, Krishnagudiyil Oru Pranayakalathu and Kannezhuthi Pottum Thottu(Film for which Manju Warrier got her National Award Special Mention), this movie is the one in which Biju Menon and Manju Warrier acts together. People are very eagerly waiting to see them on the screen together after a time gap of 20 years. This is the 3rd movie under the banner of Manju Warrier Productions. Chathur Mukham movie which came under this production is a super hit and hence people are waiting to see the next film that comes under this banner. The film also marks the directoral debut of the actor and producer Madhu Warrier who is Manju Warrier's brother. So people are excited to see the sister brother combo on the screen. All the proofs validating the above points are there in the article and also it has 9 references by different news channels, which greatly solves the notability issue. Even the Google news shows us proofs for enough and more notability attained for this movie[2]— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonal Mathew (talk • contribs)

Presenting some other articles which supports the above listed points. [3][4][5][6]— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonal Mathew (talk • contribs)

None of those references contribute much to notability, as the film still fails WP:GNG, WP:NFILM and WP:NFF.

• Reference 1 is about the director and lacks Wikipedia:Significant coverage.
• Reference 2 is a Google Search, which cannot indicate notability on it’s own; see Wikipedia:Google searches and numbers.
• Reference 3 is not in English, and appears to be about the launch of the movie, perhaps contributing a little to notability.
• Reference 4 is not in English either, but appears to be about the film’s casting and creation from what I translated, probably not contributing to notability.
• Reference 5 is about a individual character, and reads like a promotional interview, which doesn’t contribute to notability.
• Reference 6 is a pure promotion of the movie, failing to contribute to notability. Eternal Shadow Talk 21:04, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Its an upcoming film. All the articles on upcoming films provide only this much information. There are articles that provide even lesser, then why only this article is kept for deletion? More than the references kept here, the points presented shows the notablity of the film.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonal Mathew (talk • contribs)

The fact that the film is upcoming does not mean it is notable. The references would have to be improved to indicate notability. Eternal Shadow Talk 21:07, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, please do not canvass as you did here Eternal Shadow Talk 21:13, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't do any canvassing. I just asked him to come here and check. If he feels to vote he will vote. You are not much aware of the Malayalam Film Industry, hence to have a decent discussion, people who do Wikipedia edits in Malayalam Films should know that there is such an article kept for deletion. Hence I just mentioned ot to him. There are many articles which gives references only in Malayalam There are also admins who changed their mind by not to delete an Afd by looking at the Google Results which came. So I don't think that those could be reasons for bot considering a reference.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonal Mathew (talk • contribs)

There is a difference between asking to participate and check and specifically saying to support the AfD. Please read WP:CANVASS as well. Eternal Shadow Talk 21:58, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: I need to make a short note here first. Sonal Mathew had come to my talk page to ask for expressing my opinion here. I would have come here anyway as Malayalam films and associated works aremy main area of expertise. Below I list my arguments

• Reference is not English; I think this is not a proper way to debate in an AFD. The language of the reference does not matter. What I learnt is that we can use any language for referencing but it needs to be reliable.
• The additional sources that Sonal listed includes the Malayalam version of Indianexpress which is a reliable source.
• It is said that the movie has wrapped up shooting and release is postponed due to Covid-19 restrictions.
• I strongly oppose the argument that Reference 6 is purely promotion. It talks about the production of the movie in detail hence satisfying NFF.
• See the source by Mathrbhumi [7]. It indicates the movie would have released on 3 July 2021 if there were no covid restrictions in Kerala which indicates that the full production of the movie has been completed.
• Lot of reference in the article gives enough coverage to the production of the movie due to the fact that it reunites Manju Warrier and Biju Menon, a celebrated pair that time after a gap of 20 years.
• Also considering the fact that this is an high anticipated movie, I think this is a definite keep. Pillechan (പിള്ളേച്ചനോട് പറ) 05:21, 15 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I am hopefully behind how Wikipedia is run nowadays. But just so that I understand, why is @Krishnavilasom Bhageerathan Pilla: voting for a keep here and a Draftify at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kanakam Kaamini Kalaham. Both these articles are equally notable with almost equal references available. Malayali Wikipedians have always stood to protect genuinely notable articles and this kowtowing to an almost sheep like behaviour where we vote as per the person before us, is not good for the community. Jupitus Smart 06:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: For your clarification Jupitus Smart, Kanakam Kaamini Kalaham's production is not notable wheras this movie's production is over and release was postponed due to Covid-19 issues. You may point out if Im pulling out wrong guidelines but I have nothing to do with what you said last. Pillechan (പിള്ളേച്ചനോട് പറ) 07:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Krishnavilasom Bhageerathan Pilla: The relevant article pertaining to the criteria governing such articles is WP:NFF. Both movies have not released, and the fact that filming may have finished for one of these movies has no bearing on notability. Also just so that we are clear KKK has also completed filming - [8]. KKK has a big star like Nivin Pauly in the helm, and as far as I understand, he has more star value than Manju Warrier or Biju Menon. Also it has an equal number of references available on the page and available on a WP:BEFORE. It is therefore most confusing for me that you choose to wax eloquent about this movie and propose drafting the other movie. Best. Jupitus Smart 12:22, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: Non-notable production. My vote based on NFF: "films that have already begun shooting, but have not yet been publicly released (theatres or video), should generally not have their own articles unless the production itself is notable per the notability guidelines." Kolma8 (talk) 21:46, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• • Comment: The film production is notable by the points given below
    • The film stars Manju Warrier, the lady super star of Malayalam Film Industry, who have a large fan following and whose films too have a great fan following.
    • In this film, Biju Menon and Manju Warrier combination comes again after 20 years. Their combination had always won the hearts of people.
    • The film is produced by Manju Warrier under the banner of Manju Warrier Productions. The films which were earlier produced by Manju Warrier namely - Chathur Mukham, which was a commercial hit and Kayyattam, which was premiered in many International Film Festivals are already super hits. Hence people are eagerly waiting for the third one.
    • Brother Madhu Warrier takes his first film with his sister, Manju Warrier in the lead role. Sister bankrolls for the brother's debut directional film.
    • Ragunath Paleri comes to acting after a very long gap.
    • Kala Master, National Award Winner for best choreographer is the dance choreographer in this movie.
    • The posters and the Behind The Screen pictures went viral in social media and had a great impact among the people.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonal Mathew (talk • contribs)

• Comment above was not signed, so I am not sure who is the contributor, but he/she misses the point about notability. I recommend reading again WP:NF Vast majority of the above 'notable' points are very much trivial and/or falls into WP:NOTINHERITED. Thus, I don't the above as a good argument for keeping the article. Kolma8 (talk) 20:04, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep The films has received some coverage from the reliable sources vis-a-vis its production per WP:NFF, such as: Times of India (Sep 2020), The News Minute (Dec 2020). Given the film has a notable cast/crew and the filming is completed, I think deletion is haphazard and should atleast be draftified until release. -- Ab207 (talk) 05:38, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Improved since the deletion nomination, and the sources shared above help establish notability. NemesisAT (talk) 21:34, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Satisfies WP:NFF; it has completed shooting. Kailash29792 (talk) 12:13, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.