Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Perfect Master (Meher Baba) (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The opening rationale was not a suggestion to delete; any other options including merging and redirecting can be done by ordinary editing away from an AfD. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:01, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect Master (Meher Baba) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Redirect to Meher Baba (preferably to the Teachings section). Not seeing any significant coverage of the concept apart from trivial mentions in independent sources. ∯WBG^converse 13:45, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Spirituality-related deletion discussions. ∯WBG^converse 13:45, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. ∯WBG^converse 13:45, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, the University of Chicago journal article in Signs and Society alone should duplicate the last RM and save this topic-important page. There is also an independent book listed as a source. Please notify the participants of the last RM, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:08, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• This is an AfD for a starter .... ∯WBG^converse 14:42, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, thanks. Sometimes the light bulbs burn out and wandering the back halls of Wikipedia brings me to the wrong room. Then please notify the participants of the last AfD. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:10, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Feel free to issue a ping to all non-blocked participants of the last AfD... FWIW, there's no significant coverage about the subject in the linked journal piece but then, arguing with you is a waste of my resources. Also, Purdom was one of the closest Baba followers and his memoir is non independent source. ∯WBG^converse 15:46, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect per nom. THe article is mostly routed in primary sources. What few independent sources there are support very little of the article's content. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 13:51, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Option: move to Teachings of Meher Baba, merge Mast, Mandali there. Hyperbolick (talk) 15:36, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why? And is the teachings article in the process of being written (can't move to a red link, unless you are suggesting a rename of this page). This article, which is well sourced by a peer-reviewed academic article (which fulfills the definition of a notable topic), also fulfills a key spot in the overall topics Wikipedia collection. Please expand on your reasoning, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:43, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, rename. Keep all together, coherent whole separate from bio. Hyperbolick (talk) 15:51, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, that would work, and supportable. A renaming and then a transfer of the other pages sounds like it would make an interesting page as long as the information stays as is and isn't deboned during the merge. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:58, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't be up to AfD to set post-merge editing. Hyperbolick (talk) 16:05, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Umm... You can't agree to a merge from other articles, over here, w/o following proper merge-procedures as to those pages.

Let this be redirected, which preserves the history and the content can be merged back anytime, once the destination article is created.

Frankly, I have strong doubts about whether the subject can be minimally sourced to any independent RS, at all and unless there's fair many (~2/3) of them, providing a foundation, we can't exploit non independent sourcing. But that's thoughts for another day ..... ∯WBG^converse 19:33, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Randy, for the umpteenth time, the peer-reviewed journal article does not cover the topic, in any minimally significant manner. There are a mere couple of lines:-...(irrelevant stuff)... He explained that the Avatar comes to Earth every 700 to 1,400 years and that five perfect masters, who are present at all times on Earth, aid his successive manifestations...(irrelevant stuff)...One day in May 1913, Babajan beckoned Merwan and kissed him on the forehead.[a quote]Thus began an inner quest that would take Merwan to meet four other Perfect Masters: Sai Baba of Shirdi (c. 1840–1918), Tajuddin Baba (1861–1925), Narayan Majaraj (1885–1945) and, finally, Upasni Maharaj (ca. 1870–1941)...(irrelevant stuff)...

WP:SIGCOV, over independent sources, please. ∯WBG^converse 19:33, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, another RS is Daniel E Bassuk's 1987 Incarnation in Hinduism and Christianity: The Myth of the God-Man (Macmillan) which devotes several pages to Meher Baba including a detailed discussion of the 'perfect master'.

It's clearly one of his core concepts and deserves coverage. I'm not against merging Mast and Mandali into the article (and renaming), that seems sensible too. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:55, 28 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.