Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scott Wolter

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to America Unearthed. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 01:41, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Scott Wolter

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Recreation of a previously deleted article. I don't see that any additional sources establishing notability per WP:ANYBIO have arisen since the last AfD. LuckyLouie (talk) 00:24, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

redirect to America Unearthed, a likely search term but WP:BLP1E his only possible claim to notability is the show. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 04:01, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

TRPod, BLP1E's first requirement is that “reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event”; I cited 10 or so RS articles below about Wolter that predate the television show, as well as discussions about him in books (see Zimmerman or Kehoe) that predate the show. I'm not saying those make him a notable topic, just pointing out that I don't think the topic is properly disqualified under BLP1E. ––Agyle (talk) 21:24, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the list, I hopefully will have some time soon to review the contents. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:16, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to series, which in a small way is popular in the States. Should this lead to Wolter becoming more popular/visible on TV, a redirect would prevent asking someone to undo the deletion. I was going to vote Weak Keep due to his being published, but neither he nor his works are globally notable. — Wylie pedia 11:26, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

CAWylie, Wolter's program is broadcast on H2 Canada, but I don't think any of the notability criteria require global or international notability, unless I'm overlooking a guideline. ––Agyle (talk) 21:24, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Most references I found predate the prior AfD review, and the small amount of newer material is similar to older material. His television show is now in its second season, but it had premiered before the prior AfD decision. Here's a partial list, categorized and slightly annotated, for consideration in assessing notability.

extensive annotated bibliography compiled by Agyle

Books by Wolter (including self-published works, as some of these are cited/reviewed/mentioned by reliable sources):

Wolter, Scott F. (1986). The Lake Superior Agate. Lake Superior Agate, Incorporated. [SELF-PUBLISHED, I think] Amazon also lists a 1994 edition published by Burgess International Group underISBN 978-0808752714, which I think is an independent publisher. See next edition as well.
Wolter, Scott F. (1996). The Lake Superior Agate. Minneapolis: Burgess Publishing Company. ISBN 978-0-8087-9569-8. [Independently published, I think, but not certain] 3rd edition was published by Outernet Publishing in 1999 (presumed self-published), and current 4th edition was published by Lake Superior Agate Inc. in 2008 as ISBN 978-160250232 (presumed self-published).
Wolter, Scott F. (1997). Ettringite: Cancer of Concrete. Minneapolis: Burgess Publishing Company. ISBN 978-0-8087-9565-0. [Independently published, I think, but not certain]

This book is cited in three peer-reviewed journals, and publications by the Federal Highway Administration and one or two state transportation departments.

Wolter, Scott F. (2001). The Lake Superior Agate, One Man's Journey. Outernet Publishing, LLC. ISBN 978-1-58175-207-6. [SELF-PUBLISHED, I think]
Nielsen, Richard; Wolter, Scott F. (2006). The Kensington Rune Stone: compelling new evidence. Lake Superior Agate Publishing. ISBN 978-1-58175-562-6. [SELF–PUBLISHED, I think] (Also cited as first published in 2005, from Outernet Publishing, LLC, in Eden Prairie, MN).
Wolter, Scott F. (2009). The Hooked X: Key to the Secret History of North America. St. Cloud, MN: North Star Press Of St. Cloud, Inc. ISBN 978-0-87839-492-0. [SELF-PUBLISHED, I think]
Wolter, Scott F. (2010). Amazing Agates: Lake Superior's Banded Gemstone. Duluth: Kollath+Stensaas Publishing. ISBN 978-0-9792006-9-4. [Independently published, I think]
Wolter, Scott F. (2013). From Akhenaten to the Founding Fathers: The Mysteries of the Hooked X. North Star Press Of St. Cloud, Inc. ISBN 978-0-87839-925-3. [SELF–PUBLISHED, I think]

Articles by Wolter in Ancient American, a non–peer–reviewed magazine focused primarily on research of pre-Columbian contact between the Old World and North America, which is generally at odds with mainstream scientific opinion (i.e. primarily “fringe”):

Wolter, Scott F. (2008). "Venus Alignments in the Newport Tower, R.I.". Ancient American. 12 (77). (A later version appeared in Epigraphic Society Occasoinal Papers, 26:1 (2010)).
Wolter, Scott F. (2010). "Geological Origin: Burrows Cave "Black Stones"". Ancient American. 13 (79).
Wolter, Scott F. (2010). "Site Identification on Southern Illinois Artifacts". Ancient American. 13 (81).
Lemke, Blake; Wolter, Scott F. (2010). "Petrographic Analysis of Jubilee Stone". Ancient American. 13 (84).
Wolter, Scott F.; Stehly, Richard D. (2011). "Report of Archaeological Investigation on the Bat Creek Stone of 1889". Ancient American. 14 (88).
Wolter, Scott F. (2011). "Archaeopetrography on a Burrows Cave Artifact". Ancient American. 14 (89).

Other minor works by Wolter:

Wolter, Scott F.; Stehly, Richard D. (1993). "Deicer Distress Investigation, Madison, Wisconsin." Report to the State of Wisconsin Department of Transportation, American Engineering Testing, APS Job 92-9250.

Sounds like an absolutely routine report, but it is cited in a peer–reviewed journal:Detwiler, Rachel; Taylor, Peter; Powers, Laura (2004). "Ettringite Deposits in Air Voids". Transportation Research Record. 1893 (1): 75–80. doi:10.3141/1893-10. ISSN 0361-1981.

Wolter, Scott F. (2002). "Photo-Library of the Kensington Rune Stone Inscription." CD for Rune Stone Museum: Alexandria, Minnesota.

Wolter, Scott F. (2006). "Structural Evaluation of Concrete". American Society of Civil Engineers: 1–10. doi:10.1061/40889(201)108. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help)

Included in conference proceedings as part of Structures Congress 2006: Structural Engineering and Public Safety (PDF).

Books that cite Wolter's work:

Zimmerman, Larry; et al. (January 2008). Ferguson, Thomas John; Colwell-Chamthaphonh, Chip (eds.). Collaboration in Archaeological Practice: Engaging Descendant Communities. Altamira Press, a division of Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc. pp. 66–86. ISBN 978-0-7591-1054-0.

Scholarly book contains papers by different academic authors in each chapter. Chapter 3 entitled “Unusual or ‘extreme’ beliefs about the past, community identity, and dealing with the fringe” by Purdue archaeology professor Larry Zimmerman discusses the Kensington Rune Stone (KRS) as a backdrop to issues related to scientific controversy. It includes extensive discussion of Wolter and his KRS research throughout. The author is acquainted with Wolter, and Wolter is included in the acknowledgments as having commented on the manuscript.

Kehoe, Alice Beck (2005). The Kensington Runestone: Approaching a Research Question Holistically. Waveland Press. ISBN 978-1-4786-0925-4.

Scholarly book that discusses Wolter's Kensington Rune Stone research and book extensively and (rather surprisingly) sympathetically. Dr. Kehoe is a widely published, Harvard-educated anthropologist and professor emerita in archaeology at Marquette University. She wrote the forward to Nielsen & Wolter's KRS book. Kehoe and this book were also included in Dr. Zimmerman's discussion (see above), and is extensively discussed in a lengthy review by research archaeologist Dr. Birgitta Wallace in the Canadian Journal of Archaeology.

Kehoe, Alice Beck (2008). Controversies in archaeology. Left Coast Press. ISBN 978-1-59874-061-5.

Another scholarly book by Kehoe that discusses the KRS, and cites Nielsen & Wolter's book.

Goudsward, David (19 October 2010). The Westford Knight and Henry Sinclair: Evidence of a 14th Century Scottish Voyage to North America. McFarland & Company. pp. 113, 219. ISBN 978-0-7864-6179-0.

Scholarly book that includes about a page discussing Wolter's research. It is critical of Wolter's KRS work, stating that in spite of Dr. Kehoe, “most archaeologists remain unimpressed” by the research in Wolters & Nielsen's Kensington runestone book, and summarizes Zimmerman's criticisms, saying that Wolter's “technique of dating inscriptions via mica weathering and surface alteration has never been published in a peer–reviewed journal, so it has not been evaluated by independent sources.” It cites a few of Wolters' books and a 2005 APS company report titled “Petrographic Analysis of Rock”.

Kolodny, Annette (29 May 2012). In Search of First Contact: The Vikings of Vinland, the Peoples of the Dawnland, and the Anglo-American Anxiety of Discovery. Duke University Press. p. 395. ISBN 0-8223-5286-9.

Scholarly book cites Nieslsen/Wolter's Kensington Rune Stone book among “works consulted” (no preview, so the context isn't clear).

Pye, Michael; Dalley, Kirsten (15 December 2012). Lost Cities and Forgotten Civilizations. The Rosen Publishing Group. pp. 8, 9, 12, 13, 28. ISBN 978-1-4488-9251-8.

Fringe/pop-science book; it contains several references to Wolter, and cites some of his writings.

Shaffer, Stephen B. (2012). Voices of the Ancients. Cedar Fort. ISBN 978-1-4621-1022-3.

Fringe/pop-science book; cite's Wolter's The Hooked X.

Other books that discuss Wolter or his books:

Blewett, William L. (2012). Geology and Landscape of Michigan’s Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore and Vicinity. Wayne State University Press. p. 105. ISBN 0-8143-3616-7.

Includes Wolter's The Lake Superior Agate as “highly recommended” in a paragraph listing six books on additional sources of information on “agates and erratics”.

Polk, Patti (2013). Collecting Agates and Jaspers of North America. Krause Publications. p. 270. ISBN 978-1-4402-3745-4.

Includes Wolter's The Lake Superior Agate among a “Recommended Reading” list of nearly 30 books and magazines about agates and other geological topics.

Grande, Lance (2013). The Lost World of Fossil Lake: Snapshots from Deep Time. University of Chicago Press. pp. 30, 122. ISBN 978-0-226-92298-0.

Scholarly work, briefly mentions Wolter's 1998–2000 work and partnership purchasing in a Minnesota rock quarry, and credits a fish fossil photo used in the book to Wolter.

Ferreira, Leonardo (2006). Centuries of Silence: The Story of Latin American Journalism. Greenwood Publishing Group. p. 270. ISBN 978-0-275-98410-6.

Scholarly work, briefly discribes Wolter's work on the KRS, and work on a second, later–confirmed hoax rune stone planted near the original KRS site, citing a 2001 Star Tribune article. (Topic also covered in Archaeology's 2002 account).

Berry, Steve (15 May 2012). The Columbus Affair: A Novel (with bonus short story The Admiral's Mark). Random House Publishing Group. p. 424. ISBN 978-0-345-52653-3.

Fictional novel, but in a “Writers Notes” section recommends Wolter's The Hooked X as a good source of information on the mystery of the symbol.

Taunton, Gwendolyn (2012). Mimir: Journal of North European Traditions. Vol. 2. Numen Books. pp. 51, 55–56. ISBN 978-0-9871581-4-7.

Briefly discusses Wolter's research of runestones, and cites The Hooked X and Holy Grail in America.

Reiersgord, Thomas E. (2001). The Kensington rune stone: its place in history. Pogo Press. p. 47. ISBN 978-1-880654-24-8.

Seems non-scholarly; not sure. Briefly mentions Wolter and Hanson's study of the mineral composition of the KRS and their announced tentative findings.

Joseph, Frank (1 October 2008). Unearthing ancient America: the lost sagas of conquerors, castaways, and scoundrels. New Page Books. pp. 41–44. ISBN 978-1-60163-031-5.

Fringe science book, mentions Wolter's work on the KRS.

Periodical articles that discuss Wolter and his work:

Reitan, Cheryl (Summer 2001). "Romance of the stones: a UMD alumnus shares his quest for fossils, agates, and an ancient stone". BRIDGE: The Magazine of the University of Minnesota Duluth. Vol. 18, no. 2. The University of Minnesota Duluth.

Article about Wolter and his interests and work in geology since his college days.

Meier, Peg (6 November 2001). "2nd Runestone a hoax, say two who claim to have carved it". Star Tribune. Archived from the original on 6 November 2001.

Includes about five paragraphs about Wolter's work and comments on a fake runestone planted near Kensington Runestone Park.

Powell, Eric A. (2002). "Runestone Fakery". Archaeology. Vol. 55, no. 1. Archaeological Institute of America.

Single paragraph mention of Wolter's involvement in testing a fake runestone planted near Kensington Runestone Park.

Wallace, Birgitta (2006). "The Kensington Runestone: Approaching a Research Question Holistically. (Book review)" (PDF). Canadian Journal of Archaeology. 30: 143–149.

Scholarly, detailed 7–page review of Kehoe's book; review discuss Nielsen & Wolter's work on the KRS, and the review cites their KRS book.

Nielsen, Richard (2009). "There is No Grail Code on the Kensington Rune Stone" (PDF). Epigraphic Society Occasional Papers. 27. The Epigraphic Society: 128–138.

The author, Nielsen, co-authored the KRS book with Wolter; article includes extensive discussion of their work and some of Wolter's preceding work.

Williams, Henrik. "Recension av Scott F. Wolter. The Hooked X: Key to the Secret History of North America." ESOP. The Epigraphic Society Occasional Papers 27 (2009): 139-143.

Book review of Wolter's The Hooked X.

Francisco, Mollee (23 July 2009). "Changing history: Chaska couple sells controversial documentary to History Channel". Eden Prairie News.

Article about the documentary Holy Grail in America, which features Wolter; article includes information about Wolter.

Estrada, Herón Márquez (23 September 2009). "Local film, expert put new focus on ancient mystery". Star Tribune.

Article about Wolter's background and the documentary Holy Grail in America.

Ehrlick, Earrell (30 November 2009). "The secret history of North America: Author to speak about Kensington Runestone, Vikings and Templars". Winona Daily News.

Article about Wolter, his theories, and his then-new book The Hooked X.

Powell, Eric A. (2010). "Insider: The Kensington code". Archaeology. Vol. 63, no. 3. Archaeological Institute of America.

Review of Holy Grail in America which features Wolter. (Link is to abstract of review only).

Church, Chris (30 August 2012). "Missing rune stone off Pojac Point was focus of study". Independent RI.

Article about the Narragansett rune stone's theft; includes mention of some of Wolter's work, and discusses his take on the theft.

Gregg, Eddie (28 November 2012). "Film crew for history channel show on location at Masonic lodge in Helena". Indepdent Record.

Article about America Unearthed episode on Helena, Montana's Grand Masonic Lodge, including mentions of Wolter and some of his other work.

Francisco, Mollee (13 December 2012). "Unearthing America's secret history". Chaska Herald.

Article about Wolter, his work, and America Unearthed.

Baker, Joe (20 December 2012). "Towering debate: History Chanel to explore origin of Newport's Old Stone Mill".

Article about Wolter and his work on America Unearthed in Newport.

Gustafson, Amy Carlson (20 December 2012). "Twin Cities forensic geologist digs into mysteries on new cable TV show". TwinCities.com/St. Paul Pioneer Press. Media News Group.

Short article about Wolter and his work on America Unearthed.

Dujardin, Richard C. (6 July 2013). "As theories of its origin abound, what does future hold for Narragansett Rune Stone?". Providence Journal.

Article about the Narragansett Rune Stone that, with considerable discussion of Wolter and his work.

Moody, Edward (4 December 2013). "Meet the Minnesota man behind 'America Unearthed'". CBS Minnesota.

Short written article that includes video, about Wolter and America Unearthed.

Other:

The University of North Dakota's Department of Special Collections maintains two boxes of documents in their Kensington Rune Stone Collection, including several related to Wolter or his work:

Folder 55: Grand Forks Herald Interview with Scott Wolter, a geologist who has written several books about the Kensington Rune Stone: January 13, 2007
Folder 56: Scandinavian interview with Scott Wolter: Winter 2008
Folder 59: "Comments on Scott Wolter's Report on the Kensington Stone, Dated 2003.10.18." Epigraphic Society Occasional Papers." v27, 2009
Folder 63: Scott Wolter. "Peer Review of Richard Nielsen's 'Weathering Ground-line,' 'Grail Prayer,' and 'Dotted R' Papers in ESOP #27." May 21, 2010

Video featuring Wolter:

1362: The Kensington Enigma Online. United International Film Corp. 14 April 2007.

70 minute documentary, features Wolter for several minutes of explanation.

Holy Grail in America. Committee Films. 20 September 2009.

120 minute documentary, premiered on History Channel/H2, features Wolter for several minutes of explanation.

America Unearthed. Committee Films. 21 December 2012.

Television series, airs on History Channel/H2; Wolter is sole host of the program, featured nearly continuously through most episodes. 25 episodes so far, hour–long (with commercials).

––Agyle (talk) 16:41, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and salt. GS search for "S F Wolter" shows negligible cites. Fails WP:Prof. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:18, 6 February 2014 (UTC).[reply]

Xxanthippe, WP:PROF is intended to judge notability of professors or others in academia, and while it's true the subject doesn't meet those criteria, I would consider WP:CREATIVE; the subject has never been a professor, and is best known as an author and television host. ––Agyle (talk) 21:24, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: WP:ACADEMIC clearly doesn't apply (he works outside academia, and has never published in peer-reviewed journals). WP:ENTERTAINER misses criteria (not a significant “fan base”, and not significantly involved in multiple TV shows or notable films. The only area of notability I'd consider is WP:CREATIVE criterion 3: “The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, that has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.” His research on the KRS and books (KRS & Hooked X) are somewhat well known in the US, even if widely disputed, and formed the basis for the two documentaries and television show he's been a part of, and to some extent Kehoe's KRS book (also widely disputed, as in Wallace 2006 & Zimmerman 2008 – not arguing about the quality of the science!). The periodical citations above include several articles and reviews about all of these works. For some measure of being well known, an America Unearthed episode last month had more than 1 million viewers. ––Agyle (talk) 02:14, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I am getting a big "fringe"/pseudoscience buzz from some of the material I've looked at with respect to this topic in a cursory spin around the Googlesphere. I also note a Wikipediocracy thread noting this subject himself (loudly) requested deletion of a previous iteration of this piece. That said, there are pretty copious hits for the exact name + History channel and I wouldn't be stunned if a few pan out as sources counting to GNG. No opinion. Carrite (talk) 03:49, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- the previous version from what I recall was pretty staunch in placing Wolter's views in the position that they are held by mainstream academia (and yes, you "fringe" spidey sense is correct), and his objections were about that and the fact that his claims were "not presented neutrally". -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:45, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- As an everyday user and no expert, I find this to be a fair assessment of Mr. Woltner. Many of his claims are "out there", but is he crazy or is he far-seeing? In 1914 the average American would find many of today's devices to be unbelievable. In 1814 the average American would have found everything unbelievable and believe you should be confined in a mental asylum. Certainly that would be the case in 1714 and in 1614 you would have been hung as a witch! When I was a child, Columbus was the definite discoverer of the Americas. Today we know differently. I believe in the interest of open-mindedness this entry should stay. Who knows what information could be found in even the next 12 months that would prove one of Mr. Woltner's claims? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cindydintn (talk • contribs) 04:12, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Indeed; Wolter has done uncontroversial work and writings too, but his fame is from his fringe writing & theories, and America Unearthed, which covers a wide range of fringe topics. His geological analysis of the KSR could be called disputed/bad science, but combined with more fanciful theories pushed him deep into fringe. However, I think that's irrelevant toward notability; whether Wolter is right or wrong, fringe or mainstream, WP:N and WP:CREATIVE criteria are the same, and nobody's voted to keep the article yet. If he receives more significant coverage in the future, gets another TV show, or writes a best–selling book, his notability can be reassessed at that time. ––Agyle (talk) 05:55, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- as an encyclopedia (and not a time machine collective), you are correct that we do not know what might happen in 12 months from now, (we even have a policy about it!). And because we know we do not know what tomorrow might bring, we present article content as reflecting the best mainstream academic thought as it is known and believed today. see the various subsections following WP:UNDUE for more details.---- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 07:26, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I know we like to judge for content, but if there is a Flat Earth Society page or Giorgio A. Tsoukalos page, I am not sure why there would not be a Scott Wolter page unless the criteria to having one is to be radically wrong or radically right and everyone in between is left out. I suspect Wolter's page was created primarily as an attack page. If the attacks cannot be policed then it should be deleted. However, the entire reason people trust Wikipedia is to get a neutral and factual assessment about a thing or person such as Scott Wolter, Giorgio A. Tsoukalos or the Flat Earth Society without being a forum for gossip and belittlement. Wikipedia is the people's encyclopedia not the academic's encyclopedia and discoveries are not only reserved for academics. Religion for one is probably not an academic topic nor mainstream, and yet it still finds its way on Wikipedia. Wikipedia should cover all matters equally whether we agree a point of view or not. If mainstream thought is the only thoughts that should be represented on wiki, then we have a lot of pages to delete. Questioning the mainstream thought is the exact process of science. Without it, we would still be living in the dark ages. The Scott Wolters of the world should not be discouraged but encouraged. Whether they come up empty handed or not is another issue entirely. We should be careful not to instill fear in discovery by coming up empty handed. Star Trek inspired a whole generation of engineers which are badly lacking today as these baby-boomers retire. Star Trek in its day it was probably viewed as the worst kind of B-movie with scantily clad women, but if it has the potential to inspire a generation of engineers or geologists as in Wolter's case, to answer the questions raised by the show, then why should we stand in the way. 74.109.46.107 (talk) 01:48, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. Fringe people who are covered in non-fringe sources are notable per WP:FRINGE. -- GreenC 17:22, 15 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.