Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thomas Pastor

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:40, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Pastor

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Non-notable spiritual leader/person. Sourcing is almost nothing in RS, only hits are on his name for other people. Oaktree b (talk) 04:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. Oaktree b (talk) 04:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Buddhism. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working with this individual to improve the page, I've linked him from the Kwan Um School of Zen Wikipedia page. What does RS mean? Thank you for your time! Binkybonker (talk) 16:30, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will comment on your talk page about your question. - Aoidh (talk) 17:04, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Article fails WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. The article has no independent third-party sources, all being either directly affiliated with the individual or being interviews with the individual. I could not find any independent reliable sources online either; it doesn't help that both "Thomas Pastor" and "Ji Haeng" are names for many other people, meaning the search results for those names are full of other unrelated individuals. - Aoidh (talk) 17:04, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To add to the existing evidence

The page cites Thomas Pastor as the founder of the Zen Center of Las Vegas. However, the Zen Center of Las Vegas Wiki page does not list Thomas Pastor as the founder, but an entirely different monk. Is it one or the other? is it both?

Taizan Maezumi is cited as the founder of the Zen Center of Las Vegas (linked via Thomas Pastor page) yet Taizan Maezumi does not appear in Thomas Pastor page. Either these two did not know each other and the practices are different and should not be linked, or it's the same practice and they should be refered.

User:Tinndalos — Preceding undated comment added 05:53, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Little evidence of notability. None of the sources cited is independent of the subject while having extensive discussion of him, except possibly no. 14, which gave me a 404. (sources 1 and 4 are duplicates, as are 9 and 12.) Maproom (talk) 22:07, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Maproom: Here is an archived copy of that reference, which is just a trivial mention that says the individual's name and what day they would be teaching at the retreat, which means it's not an independent source even if it wasn't a trivial mention. - Aoidh (talk) 03:02, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: First, the photograph looks as if it was made with the cooperation of its subject. The photographer was Sanch1161, who was also the creator of this article. Is there perhaps a conflict of interest? Secondly, the article Thomas Pastor leads the reader to Kwan Um School of Zen, which has a gallery, from which we arrive at articles on Soenghyang, Dae Kwang, Wu Kwang, Bon Yeon and other figures whose notability isn't at all obvious to me -- and also to an article on Wubong, from which we learn such nuggets as "Zen practice [...] gives us the attainment of truth and a clear direction" and that the subject "left his body" at such and such a time: not, I think, "encyclopedic" material. -- Hoary (talk) 07:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

{{Keep | [The significance of this page rests mainly on the fact that the subject is the last American to have been named a lineage holder by Suengsahn before his death. Suengsahn was noted for bringing Korean Buddhism to America. Locating suitable citations to support this article are mainly due to the age of the subject matter. The Americans given transmission from Seungsahn tended to be post beat generation poets, artists and professors but their work was vastly pre-internet. I have found additional citations for the subject including a feature in A Love Supreme: The Story of John Coltrane's Signature Album. Elvin Jones. Penguin Books.p. 157, an article about the subject in International Musician (back copy) as well as a feature in NPR’s Desert Companion and have added. The subject has multiple interviews including The Review Journal (largest Las Vegas newspaper est. 1908) as well as the Sun which are respectable, but it will take additional time to source additional journal citations given the pre-internet nature of when he was most active. ] }} MFoskett (talk) 22:27, 2 August 2023 (UTC) — MFoskett (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

To demonstrate notability, a subject must meet one of Wikipedia's notability guidelines, such as WP:GNG, WP:BASIC, WP:NARTIST, WP:NBAND, et cetera. Receiving transmission, whatever the circumstances, is not a demonstration of notability for the purposes of Wikipedia. The sources that were added such as the Desert Companion are interviews which are not independent sources since all of the relevant information in those interviews is from the individual himself. The article as written and from what I could find online and in databases like WP:TWL and Newspapers.com/NewspaperArchive does not show notability. - Aoidh (talk) 22:56, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.