Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 November 15

November 15

Category:Professorships in pharmacology

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Pharmacology. ℯxplicit 03:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only one article. Not a very helpful category. Rathfelder (talk) 22:51, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Clinical pharmacologists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 December 20#Category:Clinical pharmacologists. ℯxplicit 03:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: No clear distinction between the two Rathfelder (talk) 22:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hospice

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep separate, no consensus to rename. -- Black Falcon (talk) 23:54, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: No reason for two categories. Plural is the common usage for categories Rathfelder (talk) 19:23, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Category:Hospice care would completely overlap with Category:Palliative care‎. Its the same thing. Only difference would be some of the care takes place in a building called a hospice - but many hospices already do much of their work in people's homes. I think all the topic articles should be in palliative care. Rathfelder (talk) 20:08, 17 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Palliative medicine

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. ℯxplicit 03:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Complete overlap. Palliative care is the more common term Rathfelder (talk) 19:20, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:World sports champions

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 07:59, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To match parent Category:Sports champions by sport, to better match the content of the category (divided by sport), and to make better sense (there's no such thing as "world sports" of which someone can become the champion).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 16:27, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Law enforcement in The Gambia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy delete by author request. The Bushranger One ping only 09:17, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Category already exists with 'the Gambia' rather than 'The Gambia'. Did not know this so created this erroneously. Jeffrolland (talk) 16:19, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Love & Hip Hop cast members

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 December 20#Category:Love & Hip Hop cast members. ℯxplicit 03:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: As a list of cast members, reality or otherwise, this fails WP:PERFCAT. --woodensuperman 15:58, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not entirely sure about Category:Reality television participants. On the one hand, it is probably fine under WP:PERFCAT because it categorizes individuals by genre rather than a specific performance or series. On the other hand, it is sometimes very defining (for people who are notable only due to their appearance on a reality television series) and sometimes not at all defining (for people who are independently notable, and are invited to appear on a reality television series). With perhaps a few exceptions, most of the individual categories by series violate WP:PERFCAT and should be upmerged, in my opinion. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:35, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Real Housewives cast members

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge all to Category:The Real Housewives cast members. ℯxplicit 03:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: As lists of cast members, reality or otherwise, these fail WP:PERFCAT. --woodensuperman 15:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Eye surgeons

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to an appropriate subcategory (e.g. by nationality) of Category:Ophthalmologists. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:02, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Complete overlap. Eye surgery is not a separate specialism. Every article is also in an Ophthalmologist category Rathfelder (talk) 14:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Argentinian electronic musicians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep redirect (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: C2C spelling invariably "Argentine" in Category:Argentine people by occupation. Batternut (talk) 12:39, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Slight Keep Category is already a redirect, so I do not see any problem in keeping it. Though I could be persuaded to delete it.
  • Keep redir and probably make more of them. We're never going to be able to make people stop creating duplicate "Argentinian" categories otherwise. It's easy to have a bot move articles from the catredir to the cat.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 15:59, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:British military physicians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 November 24#Category:British military physicians. -- Black Falcon (talk) 00:15, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: In line with the British medical categories Rathfelder (talk) 09:10, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Orthopedic surgeons

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. ℯxplicit 03:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only 1 to 3 articles in each of these categories. The parent Category:Orthopedic surgeons hasn't been fully diffused by nationality as there is not enough content to do that. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Part of a large scheme. There are plenty more orthopedic surgeons yet to be disbursed into sub categories. "Surgeons" is a very large category which needs diffusing. There are no more general surgeons now. All modern surgeons are specialists. I've found 3 more Italian orthopods this morning. Rathfelder (talk) 08:24, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only small subcategories have been nominated, obviously. While the tree is "established", it hasn't been fully diffused because that would leave us with dozens of one- or two-article categories which is not very helpful for navigation. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Part of an established category tree. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge all, except the Italian category, as nominated. There was not a fully established by-nationality category tree until last week, and it should never have been established in my view. 26 out of the 36 current categories contain 2 articles or fewer, and they could easily (and should) be upmerged to Category:Orthopedic surgeons and the corresponding Fooian surgeons category. Separately, User:Rathfelder, please avoid creating additional categories after the discussion has started. Doing so effectively preempts the outcome of the discussion and creates confusion—it took me a while to reconcile Marcocapelle's statement that "Category:Orthopedic surgeons hasn't been fully difussed by nationality" (on 15 November) given you fully diffused it on 17 November. Thank you. -- Black Falcon (talk) 00:27, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    There are thousands of articles about surgeons, and articles about all sorts of surgical specialities - of which there are many more than we have categories for. I have by no means finished sorting them out. I thought it was well established that a nationality tree, once established, should go down to the small nations. Why set an arbitrary limit of 3? Orthopedic surgeons from small countries may be very important in the history of orthopaedic surgery. Rathfelder (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right, but at what point is a nationality tree considered "established"? I don't think that is so clearly defined. You may be right in this case (The Bushranger and Necrothesp agree with you), but my comment was more about the timing of creating additional small categories during a discussion about whether small categories should be upmerged. Regarding your last sentence, I'm not questioning the importance of orthopedic surgeons from small countries or suggesting that they should not be categorized within Category:Orthopedic surgeons, but the decision of placing them in the main category versus country-level subcategories should be purely an organizational one unrelated to their importance. Thanks, -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:25, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    (indented comment) There is no logic in your position that we should only have national occupational categories when they reach an arbitrary size. So we should abolish Category:Saint Martin people by occupation, as none of them have more than 3 members? You assert that we should merge these categories because you consider them too small, so you object to my populating them and demonstrating that you are mistaken? Rathfelder (talk) 20:25, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no logic in your position that we should only have national occupational categories when they reach an arbitrary size. Right, but that's not my position. My position is that we should not automatically fully diffuse every occupational category by nationality. Category:Surgeons, which contains thousands of biographies of nearly 100 nationalities, clearly should be diffused. Category:Orthopedic surgeons, which contains far few biographies of far fewer nationalities, is debatable. "3 members" is not necessarily my threshold; I just picked it to illustrate that more than half of the nationality categories contain 1–2 members.
    You assert that we should merge these categories because you consider them too small, so you object to my populating them and demonstrating that you are mistaken? When did I ever object to you populating any categories? My objection (or request, to be more precise) was about creating new categories in the middle of an open discussion about what should be done with the existing ones. But, really, that's beside the point—if you felt I was attacking you somehow, rest assured that was neither my intention nor my message.
    The question is whether Category:Orthopedic surgeons should be diffused fully or partially. Currently, it is fully diffused, and more than half of the categories are still "small" by any reasonable definition—I think we can agree on that, even if we disagree about what to do next. We ought to consider diffusion from the perspective of both parents: for example, does it make sense to further diffuse Category:Croatian surgeons—a category tree which contains a total of only two articles—by specialty? In my opinion, no. -- Black Falcon (talk) 21:23, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    If we don't diffuse them we give people interested in orthopaedic surgeons the impression that there are no Croatian ones. And we have no way of knowing whether there are significant numbers in such categories if we are not allowed to create them. Actually I have found plenty more articles to populate the categories you picked out. Rathfelder (talk) 21:48, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    That's quite encouraging and I do notice a decrease, but there are still 23 categories that contain just 1–2 articles. As with all categorization, the absence of a dedicated occupation–nationality category does not imply an absence of anyone of that nationality, only that there are not enough for a category (or one has not been created yet). You make a good point, however, about "[not] knowing whether there are significant numbers" until we create and try to populate the categories, but ideally we would place articles about Croatian orthopedic surgeons directly in Category:Orthopedic surgeons and Category:Croatian surgeons until we observe that there are enough articles for a new subcategory that intersects the two. Anyway, I think we've covered this point thoroughly, so I'm happy to let others weigh in. Cheers, -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:18, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    And we have no way of knowing whether there are significant numbers in such categories if we are not allowed to create them. While I don't fully agree with this in the first place, I would at least encourage everyone to have one's own new categories deleted if it quickly turns out they can't be sufficiently populated. It is easy enough to add a db-self template on a category page within an hour or within a day, I've done that myself multiple times. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:37, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shall we delete Category:Canadian orthopedic surgeons while we are at it? There were only 3 entries in it until this evening. It is completely mistaken to suggest that the category Surgeons is diffused. There are still 500 articles in the American Surgeons category and I will be very surprised if quite a lot of them are not orthopods. And can I be enlightened as to what a db-self template is? 22:53, 27 November 2017 (UTC)Rathfelder (talk)
    See WP:G7. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    There will only be 3 articles in Category:Azerbaijani surgeons if they are merged. Do you want to abolish that too? Why should we bother to have any categories for Azerbaijani people? Its a small country far away about which we know nothing, and it appears you want to keep it that way. Rathfelder (talk) 23:09, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    No, of course not. We should seek a reasonable balance between having all articles in Category:Azerbaijani people versus diffusing into countless 1- or 2-member subcategories for every sub-specialty of every occupation (in this case: physicians → surgeons → orthopedic surgeons). Category:Surgeons and Category:Azerbaijani people both cover a lot of articles, so they should be fully diffused by nationality and occupation, respectively. Category:Orthopedic surgeons and Category:Azerbaijani surgeons both have significantly fewer articles (244 and 3, respectively), so they do not need to be fully diffused. -- Black Falcon (talk) 03:15, 3 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • All of these small categories have plenty of potential for growth. WP:SMALLCAT applies. Nothing is gained by selectively culling a category tree. Rathfelder (talk) 11:09, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sculptures depicting Daniel

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. -- Black Falcon (talk) 00:34, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose merging Category:Sculptures depicting Daniel to Category:Sculptures depicting Hebrew Bible prophets and Category:Daniel
  • Propose merging Category:Sculptures depicting Jonah to Category:Sculptures depicting Hebrew Bible prophets and Category:Jonah
  • Propose merging Category:Sculptures depicting Judith to Category:Sculptures depicting Old Testament figures, Category:Sculptures of women and Category:Judith in art
Nominator's rationale: upmerge to all parent categories per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only one article in each of these categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:25, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Neuro: Supernatural Detective

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: soft delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: With only three articles, all of which are already interlinked, this is too few members for categorization (WP:SMALLCAT) —Farix (t | c) 10:03, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 04:19, 15 November 2017 (UTC) [reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tantei Opera Milky Holmes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: soft delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: With only three articles, all of which are already interlinked, this is too few members for categorization (WP:SMALLCAT). When populating the category, the creator added several voice actor actress articles in order to pad the category out, but this isn't done on other anime related category. —Farix (t | c) 10:02, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 04:19, 15 November 2017 (UTC) [reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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