Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 26

February 26

Hip hop song stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename both from 'single' to 'song'. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 16:20, 29 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: For stub-sorting purposes, I don't see much of a need to distinguish between song stubs and single stubs, unless there is a significant difference between the number of songs that aren't released as singles and songs that are. For the most part, I would think most hip hop songs from the 2000s and 2010s are going to be singles but the more logical initial diffusion from Category:Hip hop song stubs would be by decade with the same parameter ("song" rather than "single"). For example, Category:2000s rock song stubs was created a year before Category:2000s rock single stubs (and I'm not sure there's really much difference between how those are being used). StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 23:26, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I found one of the original discussions on the singles/songs stubs distinction (here), and also there's this note on the Category:Singles (music): "Articles about music singles. Individual songs should not be listed here, nor should they get categorized by categories of the types "Singles by [artist]" or "[Artist] singles". Instead, songs should all go under subcategories of Category:Songs by artist." Just FYI. Her Pegship (speak) 01:02, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish activists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep (non-admin closure). For the record, a discussion in 2016 about this category was also closed as keep. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:05, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The term "activist" is so vague and the category so broad that it is neither meaningful, nor helpful to anyone. Many of the more narrow sub-categories are fine. Jayjg (talk) 23:11, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Saturday Night Live players

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: has already been deleted (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:09, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT. Has been deleted before. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:10, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1962 Border Conference football season

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure). Marcocapelle (talk) 07:11, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: empty category; the Border Conference folded before the 1962 football season, so this is a non-existent entity. Jweiss11 (talk) 18:08, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Social problem films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Films about social issues. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:57, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Awfully vague... —swpbT • go beyond • bad idea 17:29, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Islamic dress

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:00, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per the main article, Islamic clothing, which was moved to the present title following a move discussion. This was previously declined at speedy, so I am bringing it here. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 06:51, 26 February 2019 (UTC) [reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Christian denominations active in Germany

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:35, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:OVERLAPCAT, the scope of this category largely overlaps with its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:39, 4 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is consensus this category shouldn't remain, but no clear consensus on where it should be merged.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Rob13Talk 05:47, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom for now. The question of merging both to something else ought to be left for a separate discussion. One of these has a LDS article. While I have no time for their beliefs, I see no reason why the article should not exist and be in the category. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:48, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge. Invertedly, perhaps a "Defunct" category could be added, as is the case for some dioceses etc. PPEMES (talk) 22:18, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:African-American football quarterbacks

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to both parents, i.e. to Category:African-American players of American football and Category:American football quarterbacks .
Those favouring keep were slightly outnumbered by the delete supporters, but WP:NOTVOTE. Both sides presented arguments well-founded in policy. The keep side was boosted by impressive evidence that "African-American football quarterbacks" is recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right on which an encyclopedic head article could be written. That satisfies WP:EGRS#General.
However, those favouring removing the category pointed to WP:FINAL RUNG, which says "an ethnicity/gender/religion/sexuality/disability subcategory should never be implemented as the final rung in a category tree, unless the parent is (or will become) purely a container category". That does apply here, and my reading of WP:EGRS is that the "never" in that text applies even if the distinct-and-unique-cultural-topic test is met.
So on the balance of both numbers and of policy-based arguments, I weigh this as a weak consensus to merge.
To facilitate anyone who wants to make a list, I will list the category's contents on this day's talk page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:04, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
List as promised is at WT:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 26#Category:African-American_football_quarterbacks. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:10, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Not a defining characteristic per WP:CATDEF; non-notable intersection of race and football position Natureium (talk) 16:10, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete the ERGS rules say avoid the lowest level intersection. This is especially true of ethnicity categories often applied more as race categories. Unless you can convince me that men like Ezekiel Ansah who never set foot in the US before college are being excluded from African-American categories I am unconvinced they are anything other than race categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:02, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and make it a sub-category of Category:African-American players of American football. Aside from that category, we also have similar categories (e.g., Category:Jewish golfers, Category:Female bullfighters). I know, WP:OSE, but the quarterback position in the NFL has historically (and to this day) had very few AA players. AA QBs, and their rarity, are often discussed by reliable sources, and cited as an example of systemic racism. When an individual AA QB is written about in the media, it's often noted that they are one of the few AA QBs. I think in this case, AA QB is a notable sub-category of AA football players, per RSes. For example: [1] [2] [3] [4] Levivich (talk) 21:28, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and listify. Per WP:OCEGRS, there needs to be potential for a substantial article (not just a list) for the topic to be made an ethnic-based subcategory. I don't think it is the case here, however a list would be admissible IMHO. Place Clichy (talk) 19:36, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is consensus here to get rid of this category, both by numbers and by strength of argument. Further discussion should ideally focus on whether it's worth listifying this, since that possibility emerged later in the discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Rob13Talk 05:25, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The need of a separate list for quarterbacks is questionable. A more general list of African-American footballers (in which the position may also be mentioned) sounds more natural. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:59, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additional comment – I think this category is a defining characteristic, or a notable intersection of two defining characteristics, for the reasons explained in our article Racial issues faced by black quarterbacks. I added about 40 articles to Category:African-American football quarterbacks. The articles in this category all (or almost all) mention that the subject is a black quarterback (often the first black quarterback on their team). Here are some quotes:
And books:
  • Jordan, Billy Joe (2005). N.F.L. Black Quarterbacks Underrated. AuthorHouse. ISBN 9781420896657.
  • Martin, Wisdom T. (2003-04-01). Intentional Grounding: The History of Black Quarterbacks in the NFL. AuthorHouse. ISBN 9781403395535.
  • Rhoden, William C. (2007-01-30). Third and a Mile: The Trials and Triumph of the Black Quarterback. ESPN Books. ISBN 9781933060118.
  • Williams, Doug (1990). Quarterblack: Shattering the NFL Myth. Bonus Books. ISBN 9780929387475.
It seems to me like it should be a category and stand-alone list (there are 100+ on the Deadspin's Big Book), but if that's not the consensus, I hope there's at least consensus for keeping a list of black quarterbacks somewhere, perhaps in Racial issues faced by black quarterbacks or Black players in professional American football, or as a stand-alone list. Leviv ich 23:23, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I started List of black quarterbacks. I will be adding to it. There are 100+ sourced examples out there, I think each of which already have an article here. Leviv ich 23:01, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Most articles included, like Jacoby Brissett, have no sources that indicate the person's ethnicity. This opens up a whole host of issues, especially for living people. IMO, sorting by ethnicity is a terrible mess of BLP violations. This category in particular should be deleted per nom.--TM 12:05, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The sources supporting the addition of those articles to the black quarterback category are listed above and/or in the articles themselves. Leviv ich 02:06, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_26&oldid=1079915277"
Uses material from the Wikipedia article Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 February 26, released under the CC BY-SA 4.0 license.