Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 24

August 24

Cities in Sri Lanka by district

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 18:45, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer since most districts only contain a single city (if any at all). Marcocapelle (talk) 21:10, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Aptronyms

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 17:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Our category creator certainly saw this nomination coming. This is a trivial, though admittedly interesting, category, for a non-defining characteristic of these individuals. It might work as a list (assuming there's sourcing covering it). Without, it seems like a potential BLP violation (especially for Anthony Weiner). – Muboshgu (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mortals in the Cthulhu Mythos

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 18:46, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The vast majority of characters in the Cthulhu Mythos are "mortal". However, that term is rarely applied to them. These articles and redirects belong in the main category. ―Susmuffin Talk 15:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:The Loud House video games

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:30, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only instance of a video game with The Loud House is the upcoming Nickelodeon Kart Racers 2: Grand Prix. WP:SMALLCAT or WP:TOOSOON at this point, unnecessary regardless with general category Category:The Loud House. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American television series by production location

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. More for procedural reasons. bibliomaniac15 03:56, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Not defining. For many series we're just recording the address of a studio (The Mary Tyler Moore Show was set in Minneapolis but filmed in a studio in Los Angeles). And the subcats all say "filmed", which is problematic for taped sitcoms. Fuddle (talk) 13:18, 10 August 2020 (UTC) Fuddle (talk) 13:18, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 05:52, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Mayors of populated places

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge as amended Timrollpickering (talk) 22:42, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, just one article in each of these categories and they are not part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:34, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 05:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Prime Time Entertainment Network

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep but purge. – Fayenatic London 21:28, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Not a real network; alternately, stations can be purged with programs staying. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 00:22, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 04:50, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 05:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:War Cross with Sword (Norway)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 18:46, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with just one article and one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:01, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 04:56, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 05:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Homosociality

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:22, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Newly created category that lends itself to WP:CATV and NPOV violations, and that is already being used in such a way. Of the articles in it, aside from the eponymous article, only Bro culture, Bromance, David and Jonathan, and Womance include verifiable material about homosociality. This category is redundant to Category:Friendship and is hardly a defining characteristic per WP:OVERCAT.
There are problems with the label "homosocial". Despite its claimed meaning by Wikipedia, I could not find anything about it in general sociology sources. It is also not used in psychology. Normally, "friendship" and other terms would be used in these fields. Instead, the term is from the smaller fields of gender studies and queer theory. This source bears out why this label is non-neutral and carries connotations that make it inappropriate as a category:"A more complex, refined and dynamic view on homosociality is found in Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick’s (1985) classic study Between men...."To draw the “homosocial” back into the orbit of “desire,” of the potentially erotic, then, is to hypothesize the potential unbrokeness of a continuum between homosocial and homosexual – a continuum whose visibility, for men, in our society, is radically disrupted."""In the literature, this concept is mainly used as a tool to understand and dissect male friendships and men’s collective attempts to uphold and maintain power and hegemony. The most common use of the concept is inspired by Sedgwick’s approach, and the whole discussion and idea of a homoerotic continuum. However, most authors also stress and focus on the radical disruption of this continuum and the consequences of this disruption for homophobia, and a fragile but power-seeking masculinity.""The overall picture from the research, however, promotes the notion that homosociality clearly is a part and extension of hegemony, thus serving to always reconstruct and safeguard male interests and power." Crossroads -talk- 01:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
While we do have both a Friendship and Homosociality article, I'm not seeing that we need a homosociality category. "Category:Friendship" is sufficient. And judging when to add the homosociality category is more debatable, as seen below. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 05:15, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, the larger part of the rationale is sourced criticism on the concept. That should be discussed in article space. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:45, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • While the article can benefit from adding material along these lines, those quotes are not so much about criticism of the concept itself, but rather show how it is actually used. It is not simply about same-sex social interactions; it carries connotations about hegemony and a homoerotic continuum. This shows why categorization based on this term is not appropriate. Crossroads -talk- 14:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC) updated Crossroads -talk- 21:00, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Nonsense deletion based on nominators own ignorant POV bias. Homosociality is a notable topic and the category covers pages related to the topic. Their idea seems to be that Wikipedia should erase everything that covers same-sex interactions in anything but strict and separate sexual or "friendship" articles with no nuance anywhere. If he has an issue with the name of the category (because clearly the topic exists), he could have asked for it to be simply changed, but that's not what he did, he wants it deleted outright because HEDONTLIKEIT.★Trekker (talk) 08:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment "and the category covers pages related to the topic" Crossroads argues that several of these pages have no "verifiable material about homosociality". Have you checked that such material is already included? Dimadick (talk) 12:03, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Im aware of what the word means. Crossroads seems to be making a nonsensical argument that the exact word needs to be stated in the article for the categorization to be valid. If an article is about male-male interactions it is by definition about homosociality. It seems to be a bad faith argument since his main issue the last couple of days appears to be that he doesn't like (or possibly doesn't understand) the concept. He seems to be under the impression that every same-sex interaction that doesnt involve sex is considered "friendship" somehow, (ignoring that interactions between two or more people of the same sex can be negative, or simply neutral).★Trekker (talk) 13:00, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"If an article is about male-male interactions it is by definition about homosociality.". Not by definition and not necessarily. It is only true why viewed through a particular lens. A perfectly valid way of categorising "an article is about male-male interactions" is to say that it is about friendship. Another perfectly valid way of categorising "an article is about male-male interactions" is to say that it is about dominance/submission. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What you just said makes little sense to me. Some people here seem to be implying that its simply wrong to categorize or describe articles in a interaction-gendered way. That there are no, and should be no, words for describing the general concept of "sometimes people of the same sex interact non-sexually". We shouldn't just split up everything neatly into smaller boxes and ignore the broader topic. To me that would be like ignoring everything covering homosexuality because we can split it into gay and lesbian.★Trekker (talk) 14:04, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NPOV is determined by reliable sources, not personal feelings. As sources do not treat same-sex friendship as distinct from friendship, there is no need for a category on that basis. As for "If an article is about male-male interactions it is by definition about homosociality", no that is absolutely not the case, and why I quoted a source at such length. I know same-sex interactions can be neutral or negative, but that's irrelevant since "homosociality" is not used in that way, either in sources or on Wikipedia. Crossroads -talk- 14:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Since my vote is "Keep", is a mystery to me why Trekker is cross with me. To her points: it is arguable that "friendship" is the broader category; it is also arguable that "homosociality" is the "smaller box". Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:08, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly - avoiding excessively small boxes is part of my rationale per WP:OVERCAT. Crossroads -talk- 19:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020_August_24&oldid=1079915316"
Uses material from the Wikipedia article Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 24, released under the CC BY-SA 4.0 license.