Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 2

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 00:27, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Pan-tropical fauna to Category:Pantropical fauna

Nominator's rationale: Duplicate, consistency with Category:Pantropical flora, Category:Pantropical spiders and Pantropical. Also rename Category:Pan-tropical fish to Category:Pantropical fish. DexDor ^(talk) 20:28, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - per nom. Oculi (talk) 21:42, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support (see Ngram), but it may be useful to leave redirects at the hyphenated names. – Fayenatic London 11:28, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support; keep category titles consistent. Plantdrew (talk) 17:01, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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The result of the discussion was: Delete. The most convincing argument is that of WP:NONDEFINING included in the nominator's rationale; who a piece of equipment is sold to is not part of the definition of that piece of equipment. I sympathize with the thought that this is a common category type; but the weight of the guideline (not Policy, mind you) is on the side of delete. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:03, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Tanks of Greece (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING. None of these tanks were produced or designed in Greece. Schierbecker (talk) 20:10, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Nomination tidied up. DexDor ^(talk) 20:34, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Military equipment (and probably anything else that's mass-produced) should only be categorized by country of origin. DexDor ^(talk) 20:37, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The category is not named "Tanks produced in Greece". More generally, Category:Military equipment by country and its subcategories are commonly used in Wikipedia for equipment used, and not only produced, by countries, since most countries in the world produce only a few weapons types, and import the rest. Constantine ✍ 20:53, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The most produced tank ever is only categorized as a "Soviet" tank. Perhaps a mass rename is in order ("Tanks produced in...") so that these categories do not have to be constantly cleaned out. Schierbecker (talk) 21:51, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Some equipment (e.g. some types of guns) has been produced (under license or otherwise) in many countries so that would be overcategorizion. DexDor ^(talk) 21:58, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Some tanks too. I would argue that country categorization doesn't make sense for American weapons produced after the 1960s. The DoD had an enormous hand in designing tanks at least until the M1 Abrams. The Pentagon does not micromanage such things now. Multinational defense companies today have further eroded the idea of an "indigenous" combat vehicle. Schierbecker (talk) 23:04, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• In nearly all cases there's a clear country of origin (e.g. F-35 - US) or it's a collaboration between a small number of countries (e.g. MGCS). DexDor ^(talk) 06:39, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The category creator is wrong - see, for example discussions such as this. DexDor ^(talk) 21:58, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, completely agree with DexDor. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:41, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - eg Leopard 1 is used in about 12 listed countries, only one of which is defining. Oculi (talk) 21:49, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Listify by adding to List of equipment of the Hellenic Army, if the usage is significant and cited. That page already mentions the Leopard 1, but not AMX-30, M47, M48, M60 Patton or M60 tank. – Fayenatic London 11:23, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That page appears (although it's not clear from the lede) to be about current/future equipment. See List of historical equipment of the Hellenic Army. DexDor ^(talk) 12:28, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Listify -- Allowing categories to be added to a type of tank for every country that uses it would produce intolerable category clutter. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:39, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The lists already include the 5 tanks in the category (and others such as Leopard 2) so no listification is needed. DexDor ^(talk) 19:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I stand corrected, and agree that no further listifying is needed. Delete. – Fayenatic London 14:22, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 17:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:2018-related sports lists to Category:2018 sports-related lists
• Propose renaming Category:2019-related sports lists to Category:2019 sports-related lists
• Propose renaming Category:2020-related sports lists to Category:2020 sports-related lists

Nominator's rationale: Seems better to me. For info, the parents include e.g. 2018-related lists and Sports-related lists. – Fayenatic London 13:48, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - concur. Oculi (talk) 14:36, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge toCategory:Transphobia and Category:Misogyny User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:44, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 10#Category:Transmisogyny

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The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 00:27, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Transgender erotica to Category:Transgender sexuality

Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only one article and one subcategory. A merge to the other parent category is not needed, since the content is already in another part of that tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:34, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per WP:SMALLCAT. J947 ^(c), at 02:23, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge manually. MER-C 16:26, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Transgender rights by region to Category:Transgender rights

Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently one article and one subcat. Merge to the other parent is not necessary, since all content is already in another part of that tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:32, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oposse While there is only one childcat there is also a article, therefore this category is helpful, and there is likley to be similar articles created for semi-anotomous regions which are not countries.★Trekker (talk) 12:35, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Manual merge, moving the sub-cat Category:Transgender rights by country up into Category:Transgender rights and the article LGBT rights in Tamil Nadu into Category:LGBT rights by region. That article's name indicates that it is about the broader issue of LGBT, rather than specific to transgender. – Fayenatic London 10:48, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Even better so. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:35, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support merge per nom, or manual merge by Fayenatic london, but without prejudice to re-creation of Category:Transgender rights by region as a sub-cat of one or more of the above in the future when demand is there, per *Treker above. --Doug Mehus T·C 19:11, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agreed, the merge would be without prejudice. – Fayenatic London 17:27, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support merge per nom Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:10, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (Talk) 17:17, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Animated Green Lantern films (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Too small. Films should be added to the main Category:Green Lantern films. ★Trekker (talk) 21:30, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Procedural oppose, if not kept, this category and all film categories below should be merged somewhere. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:02, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Category:Films by character was created in July of 2019. It, and all the single character subcats - including this one - should be deleted as overcategorisation. - jc37 02:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to parents, same rationale as below. – Fayenatic London 11:14, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support this merge, with only two parent categories it is a bit easier to see that this must be correct. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:33, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (Talk) 17:17, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Animated Wonder Woman films (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Category is too small. One entry is not even about the character. ★Trekker (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Procedural oppose, if not kept, this category and all film categories below should be merged somewhere. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:02, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Category:Films by character was created in July of 2019. It, and all the single character subcats - including this one - should be deleted as overcategorisation. - jc37 02:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to both parents Category:Wonder Woman films and Category:Animated films based on DC Comics. jc37 opposes one of the grandparent hierarchies Category:Films by character, but Category:Wonder Woman films would still be valid as part of the Category:Wonder Woman hierarchy (namely Category:Wonder Woman in other media). I also fail to grasp why both he and ★Trekker and would remove the contents from the valid category Category:Animated films based on DC Comics. – Fayenatic London 10:24, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support this merge, with only two parent categories it is a bit easier to see that this must be correct. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:35, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (Talk) 17:16, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Animated Aquaman films (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Too small category. ★Trekker (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Procedural oppose, if not kept, this category and all film categories below should be merged somewhere. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:02, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Category:Films by character was created in July of 2019. It, and all the single character subcats - including this one - should be deleted as overcategorisation. - jc37 02:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to both parents Category:Aquaman films and Category:Animated films based on DC Comics. jc37 opposes one of the grandparent hierarchies Category:Films by character, but Category:Aquaman films would still be valid as part of the Category:Aquaman hierarchy (namely Category:Aquaman in other media) and additional hierarchies. I also fail to grasp why both he and ★Trekker and would remove the contents from the valid category Category:Animated films based on DC Comics. – Fayenatic London 10:27, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support this merge, with only two parent categories it is a bit easier to see that this must be correct. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:36, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories. Note that there does seem to be some consensus that the category needs some culling or updating. bibliomaniac15 06:03, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Areas of traditional spread of Ukrainians and Ukrainian language to Category:Ukrainian irredentism

Nominator's rationale: Similar to other irredentist categories in the same region, emphasized by this discussion. See also recent discussions about Category:Slovene ethnic territory (here) or Category:Bulgarian land (here), and the deletion discussion about Category:Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories. Place Clichy (talk) 21:13, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete (don't merge) per WP:NONDEF, and the articles are not about irredentism either. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:49, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Consider renaming to Category:Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories, which would be consistent with many siblings in Category:Administrative territorial entities by language. – Fayenatic London 11:40, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support that rename -- The previous category of the name (which was deleted) appears to have covered countries, rather than territories. However, we should discourage the addition of parts of the former USSR that have a Ukrainian minority, as a result of the dispersal pf population to places of exile under Stalin's purges. This left Russians as an ethnic minority in Estonia and Estonians as a minority in Siberia. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:40, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• If kept and renamed, the category needs serious purging. For example, only 0.9÷ of the population of Novosibirsk Oblast are Ukrainians. In fact I expect only the Ukraine article itself to remain in the category, so I leave my earlier delete vote unchanged. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:10, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The outcome of renaming to Category:Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories would at least be better than a 'no consensus' outcome. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:01, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose I would be open to a rename, but I categorically object to the insinuation that Ukrainians (while fighting a war on their own soil) have some aggressive irredentist plot to take the Kuban, for example (an area that is certainly historically quite Ukrainian-inhabited). Frankly, that seems like propaganda out of RT or Sputnik. --Calthinus (talk) 03:14, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• So if I understand correctly this is only opposing the original proposal, not opposing the alternative. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:01, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose merger to "Ukrainian irredentism". Weak oppose to deletion. I agree with you that Novosibirsk should not be included. Other places like Kuban should.--Calthinus (talk) 20:29, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Also in Kuban it is only 0.9÷. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:41, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• That's why "historical" matters, because in Kuban it was once 47%. See Kuban Cossacks#National_identity. --Calthinus (talk) 04:30, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Also see Ukrainians in Kuban. It was 55% in 1926, prior to Stalinist repression against Ukrainians and the Holodomor. The Ukrainian identity of the region was erased by force, although majority of the population still has Ukrainian last names.--Sanya3 (talk) 18:16, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• (from nom) Support deletion outcome, weak oppose renaming to Ukrainian countries and territories. Places in the category are not Ukrainian countries and territories, and arguments in the deletion discussion for this target category are still valid. Place Clichy (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Place Clichy It is entirely wrong to be treating this as a question about whether the category in question concerns "Ukrainian countries and territories". It does not. No territorial claim whatsoever is implicit. What is implicit, is a valuable mapping of the retreat of a disadvantaged and threatened language (Ukrainian) in the face of an advantaged one (Russian). This is more like analogous cases with Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish, Welsh, Breton, Belarusian, Occitan, Dalmatian, etc.--Calthinus (talk) 18:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  My mistake, I meant Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories. This is the renaming that has been suggested, and I'm not convinced by it. However, the current title mentions traditional spread of Ukrainians and includes the likes of Novosibirsk Oblast, so this clearly is an imprecise gathering along imprecise criteria of places very loosely related to Ukrainians or Ukrainian. Place Clichy (talk) 23:22, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Many of those are no longer Ukrainian-speaking, due to policies of forced Russification during the last several centuries.--Sanya3 (talk) 18:18, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Marcocapelle and because this is not how we usually categorize regions. DexDor ^(talk) 06:33, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and Rename to Category:Ukrainian-speaking countries and territories. Otherwise, delete Category:Russian-speaking countries and territories and all similar cat's. 94.178.234.44 (talk) 12:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as is. This is a historical category and has nothing to do with political irredentism.--Sanya3 (talk) 17:59, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. Categories have been emptied so discussion is closed. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:14, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Cthulhu Mythos symbols to Category:Cthulhu Mythos

Nominator's rationale: This category has little potential for growth. Also, I doubt that its two members are actually notable. ―Susmuffin ^Talk 08:19, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Dual merge also to Category:Symbols. Marcocapelle (talk) 02:52, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge, but this time there is no need to also merge to Category:Symbols; the remaining entry (which has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yellow Sign) was already in Category:Yellow symbols, and is now also in Category:Fictional symbols which I have just created. – Fayenatic London 10:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Fair enough. There was a second article in this category but that has apparently been deleted. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:38, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Category has been emptied. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:09, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Liz: both articles have apparently been deleted in AfD, could you please close the discussion? Marcocapelle (talk) 22:10, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Parasports competitors. – Fayenatic London 22:58, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:People who compete in parasports to Category:Disabled sports competitors

Nominator's rationale: rename in order to align with the main article Disabled sports and in order to align with the format of Category:Sports competitors. An alternative speedy rename request was opposed. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:11, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Alt rename to Category:Parasports competitors, per my original declined speedy nomination. The proposed wording is ambiguous as it is not clear whether it means people who compete in parasports (e.g. Jonnie Peacock) or sports competitors with disabilities who compete in able-bodied sport (e.g. Shaquem Griffin) or former sports competitors who are now disabled (e.g. Mike Utley). I think the main article disabled sports needs a rename, either in favour of the non-ableist parasports or disability sport which appears to be quite a bit more common than disabled sports on google. SFB 17:54, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Sillyfolkboy: so, are you starting an RM? If you are, the closing of this discussion can probably wait until the article name has been settled. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:12, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• @Sillyfolkboy: I started an RM. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:04, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Marcocapelle: Thanks for that, I missed the earlier notification. SFB 16:58, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Relisting comment: the RM has been enacted. MER-C 10:30, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support alt rename instead, per WP:C2D. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:19, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support alt rename The main article is now at Parasports. Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 01:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:Scholars of the Mamluk Sultanate and Category:Theologians of the Mamluk Sultanate Timrollpickering (Talk) 15:01, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Mamluk scholars to Category:Mamluk-era scholars
• Propose renaming Category:Mamluk theologians to Category:Mamluk-era theologians

Nominator's rationale: I created both categories a while ago. The intention was for the categories to contain scholars/theologians who lived under Mamluk rule. They may not necessarily be of Mamluk descent (Category:People of the Mamluk Sultanate vs Category:Mamluks). Al-Andalusi (talk) 08:42, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• This is very narrow categorization. I would rather propose to disperse the articles among Egyptian and Arab categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:22, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support with the possible alternative of Category:Scholars of the Mamluk Sultanate to match Category:People of the Mamluk Sultanate. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:35, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Rename to Category:Scholars of the Mamluk Sultanate and Category:Theologians of the Mamluk Sultanate, per Peterkingiron's suggestion. Clearer meaning of "Mamluk", as we have no article on the Mamluk era. Dimadick (talk) 18:52, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment, "Sultanate" is much better than "era" indeed. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:40, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Alternative Category:Scholars of the Mamluk Sultanate and Category:Theologians of the Mamluk Sultanate, per Peterkingiron.GreyShark (dibra) 21:25, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Films directed by K. S. Prakash Rao User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:45, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 10#Category:Films directed by Kovelamudi Surya Prakash Rao

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The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 (talk) 00:28, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Transformers characters in video games to Category:Robot characters in video games

Nominator's rationale: Seems like an unnecessary category. It's not a unique enough criteria that it makes sense in the Transformers category structure, and "Robot characters in video games" is not so full as to need to filer out articles by franchise. TTN (talk) 04:37, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge I mean, what notable Transformer characters are not in a video game by now?_{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 14:07, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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