Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 19

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 04:04, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Izala society preacher to Category:Izala Society preachers

Nominator's rationale: Izala Society. Fuddle (talk) 23:48, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per nom, but suggest a further rename to Category:Izala Society officials or similar. One is a chairman, the other is a secretary general. Marcocapelle (talk) 01:02, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, per WP:SMALLCAT. Only two articles, and no evidence offered that it is likely to be expanded any time soon. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• That is a reasonable alternative too. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:57, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per BHG. Kbdank71 22:29, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• If kept, this change should be made BUT I am uncertain of its merits. This appears to be a Muslim sect or movement. The main article lists 6 "prominent members" with articles, which would be enough for a category. We do not normally allow categories for Society members. On the other hand, it this is the equivalent of a Protestant denomination or a Catholic order, it might be permissible to keep it. I am a Christian and neither know nor want to know anything of the subject, but that is not relevant. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:11, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Storyteller at The Moth to Category:Storytellers at The Moth

Nominator's rationale: Or non-defining. Fuddle (talk) 23:41, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:PERFCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 01:09, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support as per Wikipedia:Category_names#General_conventions: Names of set categories should be plural. Examples: "Writers", "Villages in Poland".

Stories told at The Moth are told by a wide spectrum of individuals from police officers to astronauts to musicians to teachers to nurses to incarcerated individuals to students and, therefore, are not in conflict with WP:PERFCAT. See Fact Sheet from The Moth.

--CmdrDan (talk) 03:02, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Anyhow it is not a defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:PERFCAT. A list would be more appropriate, assuming it meant WP:NOTESAL. Contrary to popular belief, Wikipedia is not a database or waste bin of all verifiable data in the universe. We don't make categories or lists just for amusement or to satisfy niche curiosity. --Animalparty! (talk) 20:09, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:PERFCAT, a classic example. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:48, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Classic WP:PERFCAT. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:56, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete -- a typical PERFCAT case. Perhaps listify. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:13, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Diplomats of Bavaria. bibliomaniac15 04:07, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Bavarian diplomats to Category:Diplomats from Bavaria

Nominator's rationale: In line with similar categories - to make it clearer that this is about their origin/location. This is not intended to be a category just for diplomats of the Kingdom of Bavaria. There arent enough articles about them to justify a separate category. Rathfelder (talk) 22:15, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose and alt rename to Category:Diplomats of Bavaria, i.e. to similar format as sibling categories by former country. Two articles should be purged, they are diplomats of Germany instead of of Bavaria. Marcocapelle (talk) 01:15, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Rename to Category:Diplomats of Bavaria per Marcocapelle and to clarify that these are diplomats sent by Bavaria, not random diplomats who are "from" Bavaria given our loose definition of "from". Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Query the nom says the scope is nationality (Bavarian) but other editors seem to assume that the scope is the state ( Kingdom of Bavaria). Which is it? Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:29, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Bavarian in the 21st century is neither a nationality nor referring to an independent state. The alt rename unambiguously makes it clear that it is referring to the former state (kingdom, electorate, duchy), in line with sibling categories by former country. Note that Bavaria even as an electorate / duchy in the Holy Roman Empire was independent "enough" to have their own diplomats, although we do not have articles about that period in this category yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:03, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• What do we then do about German diplomats from Bavaria? Could Category:Bavarian diplomats contain both Category:Diplomats of Bavaria and Category:German diplomats from Bavaria (About which I suspect there are considerably more articles)?Rathfelder (talk) 12:19, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  We do not need to categorize diplomats who represented Germany by the region they are "from". I guess this plays little role in their diplomatic work. Place Clichy (talk) 15:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  We dont take that approach to actors, artists etc. Rathfelder (talk) 17:05, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Rename to Diplomats of Bavaria per Marcocapelle. Place Clichy (talk) 15:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• I dont think saying they are "of" Bavaria makes it clearer. Look at Category:Military personnel of Bavaria, which is largely populated by soldiers from Bavaria after 1870, including some of the Field marshals of Bavaria. From 1871 to 1918 Bavaria was not independent. Rathfelder (talk) 11:19, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• In fact the Bavarian army was abolished as late as in 1918. The German Empire was a sort of a confederation. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:33, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Indeed, its very weird. The army was independent - except where war was involved! Rathfelder (talk) 20:26, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• According to Kingdom of Bavaria § Ludwig II and the German Empire, Bavaria also retained its own diplomatic body after 1871, until the abolition of the Kingdom in 1918. Place Clichy (talk) 02:15, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Rename but to Category:Diplomats of Bavaria, which should have a headnote making it clear that it is for diplomats of the kingdom (previously electorate) of Bavaria, not diplomats of the post-1918 united Germany, who happen to be form Bavaria. There should be cognate cases for other German states. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:18, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• And a separate category for German diplomats from Bavaria after 1918? Rathfelder (talk) 17:05, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• That would be a trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose and alt rename to Category:Diplomats of Bavaria. PPEMES (talk) 21:34, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:55, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Illustrators of work by G. A. Henty (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: I can't find an established pattern for this. Fuddle (talk) 19:22, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I don't understand what you mean by an established pattern. G. A. Henty was the giant of late Victorian Boys' Adventure Fiction. Who probably sold about 3.5 million volumes when book were a lot more expensive in relative terms, and when the reading population was a lot smaller. The reason for the category is it is a good starting point for finding illustrators of boy adventure fiction. The main source is Peter Newbolt's "G.A. Henty, 1832-1902 : a bibliographical study of his British editions, with short accounts of his publishers, illustrators and designers, and notes on production methods used for his books." On Internet Archive as a borrowable book at https://archive.org/details/trent_0116404196192/page/611/mode/1up/search/illustrators

Johncosgrave (talk) 19:49, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, this is not a defining characteristic of these illustrators. Many articles in the category do not even mention Henty. The illustrators are better served by adding them as a 3rd column in G._A._Henty#List_of_titles. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per Marcocapelle: WP:NONDEFINING. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:58, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as trivial, non-defining traits, per WP:COPDEF, WP:NONDEFINING, and following the logic of WP:PERFCAT. Illustrators illustrate all kinds of books, not merely those of an obscure novelist. --Animalparty! (talk) 19:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Clicking through the articles, this looks like WP:PERFCAT. RevelationDirect (talk) 00:46, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:55, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Peasant leader (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Appears to be related to peasant movement, but it's not clear from the articles. Fuddle (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak support, the category contains quite a hodgepodge of very different sorts of 'peasant leaders'. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:04, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete There are a number of categories at Category:Activists which are more useful than this one. --Yoonadue (talk) 15:14, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete -- This seems to be a random collection of Indian politicians, some from explicitly Marxist or peasant parties of movements, but I see no clear inclusion criterion. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:24, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename using BHG's alt target bibliomaniac15 04:06, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:U.S. Presidents and slavery to Category:United States presidents and slavery

Nominator's rationale: Clearer than abbreviations. Fuddle (talk) 19:01, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Rename to Category:Presidents of the United States and slavery to follow the format of Category:Presidents of the United States and the head article Presidents of the United States. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:57, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support alt rename, for consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:07, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support alt rename. PPEMES (talk) 21:42, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Alt Rename to match rest of category tree. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:57, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:07, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Bill Haslam (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: This category contains the article about the topic of the category and 4 elections in which he participated. User:Namiba 13:06, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per WP:PERFCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  @Marcocapelle: I'm confused by your rationale here. Bill Haslam is a politician, not a performer. bibliomaniac15 04:15, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• It was not right for a different reason. We should not categorize people by serial events that are a natural consequence of their occupation, to avoid category clutter. Serial events are performances for performers, elections for politicians. But the reverse is not true: we may categorize events by the main players in that event, as happened in this case. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:35, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. This would create a terrible precedent of giving every candidate an eponymous category for every election they've won or participated in, from city school board to national presidential elections. The elections themselves are not defined by who took part in them (for the sake of Wikipedia categorization) and most politicians don't have enough closely related subsidiary articles to warrant eponymous categories. --Animalparty! (talk) 20:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete -- I agree this is a bad precedent. It is really Category:Elections won by Bill Haslam. Would the two Knoxville elections have been notable, if he had not gone on to be Governor? Normally, local elections and the position of mayor are NN, except the largest cities. If so, the two mayoral elections ought to be deleted, leaving a main article and two campaigns to be state governor. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:32, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:58, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Hamilton Intermediates F.C. players (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: I can't find any evidence that a club of this name ever competed in Scottish football, at senior or junior level. We have no article on a team of this name. The category contains only one player, John McDougall (footballer, born 1900), with the sole evidence for their existence being the single source in his article, a simple list of clubs played for, without context, in his ENFA entry. I have searched Google and the British Newspaper Archive and can find no trace of a club of this name. A possibility is that it's a garbled reference to some sort of schools or juvenile team, perhaps connected with Hamilton Academical F.C.. Whatever, there doesn't seem to have been a notable club of this name to justify a category. Jellyman (talk) 16:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete -- The one person categorised is listed has having played once for a Scottish League club: that hardly sounds notable to me. My guess is that Hamilton Intermediates was either an amateur or a youth team; as such it would be NN. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:43, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I created this category solely because it was listed at Special:WantedCategories. Jellyman's evidence that club never existed is persuasive. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 17:26, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 17:27, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: merge. bibliomaniac15 04:02, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Villa I Tatti, The Harvard Center for Italian Renaissance Studies staff to Category:Harvard University staff
• Propose merging Category:Harvard Divinity School staff to Category:Harvard University staff
• Propose merging Category:Harvard Business School staff to Category:Harvard University staff / Category:Harvard Business School people

Nominator's rationale: Small categories that are unlikely to grow. User:Namiba 15:12, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:10, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per nom. PPEMES (talk) 21:34, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:08, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:West Delhi Places (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Covered by Category:West Delhi district. Fuddle (talk) 13:51, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Category:West Delhi district per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:20, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. @Marcocapelle, the sole article in this category is Ashok Nagar (Delhi), which is is already in Category:West Delhi Residential Areas. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:51, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• That category isn't even a subcat of Category:West Delhi district and should be deleted too. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:08, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:FOSS4G (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Topic isn't covered in the one article. Possible WP:COI. Fuddle (talk) 03:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:NONDEF. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:31, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: keep. bibliomaniac15 04:03, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Books by genre (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: seems to cover more or less the same ground as Category:Books by topicPrisencolin (talk) 03:25, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose, for example children's books (genre) are not about any specific topic. Some subcategories might be individually moved from one category to the other though. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:37, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• OpposeNeither comedy, nor horror are topics. Dimadick (talk) 09:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - they are different - neither is a subcat of the other. 'Books about XXX' is not a genre. Some book subcats are in both; no surprise here. Oculi (talk)
• Oppose. Wholly different scope. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per others. Topics and genres are separate. Topics can be in multiple genres and vice versa. Kbdank71 22:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. bibliomaniac15 04:01, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Schools in Kaduna state to Category:Schools in Kaduna State

Nominator's rationale: To match Kaduna State. Fuddle (talk) 03:07, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy rename, State has been capitalized throughout the entire category tree, WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy rename per WP:C2C.
  @Fuddle, please use WP:CFDS for these speediable nominations. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:49, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: rename. bibliomaniac15 04:01, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Dairy Industry in India to Category:Dairy industry in India

Nominator's rationale: Capitalization. Fuddle (talk) 03:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy rename, industry has not been capitalized throughout the entire category tree, WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy rename per WP:C2C and WP:C2A. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:47, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy Clear capitalization convention, non-controversial. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:58, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:One Day at a Time (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Only 3 articles after 45 years. Fuddle (talk) 02:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:SMALLCAT: small, with no potential for growth. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:47, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete for Now With no objection to recreating if it gets up to 5 articles in the coming decades. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:59, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:YouTuber (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Created by user template. Fuddle (talk) 02:56, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, both category assignments should be removed from that user page, leaving this category empty. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:41, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose Deleting Category:IIFA Utsavam winners

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)

The IIFA Utsavam is a an award founded in 2016 for the south Indian film industry. While the award certainly aspires to be prominent it's not there yet and the only article in this category doesn't even mention this award so it doesn't seem defining. The contents are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:07, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. -RD

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:46, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support another NN OCAWARD case. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nominator, per WP:NONDEFINING and per WP:OCAWARD. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 03:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose Deleting Category:Carl Nielsen Prize winners

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:V and WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)

We don't have an article on the Carl Nielsen Prize but, based on the contents, it must be a Danish composing award named after Carl Nielsen. Most of the articles don't mention the award at all but some mention it in passing or in the lede so, while I can't say for sure whether this award is defining, there's nothing in English Wikipedia that even hints that it might be. I listed the current category contents right here so no work is lost if anyone wants to create a main article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:07, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. -RD

• Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support another NN OCAWARD case. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nominator, per WP:NONDEFINING and per WP:OCAWARD. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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