Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 November 5

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: no consensus to delete; needs a broader discussion. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:26, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Taxa named by Rosendo Pascual (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This category does not have a corresponding page (i.e. the namer of these taxa). Magnatyrannus (talk | contribs) 20:58, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 08:07, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A category cannot be a category if it has no existing, corresponding article. Magnatyrannus (talk | contribs) 20:12, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• That is not a general rule, as far as I know. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete This is not a defining characteristic and should be deleted according to WP:NONDEF. The Argentodites article has no sourcing or text that this taxon was named by Rosendo Pascual. Is should this be deleted because there are no reliable sources WP:RS to back up the claim? 🌊PacificDepths^talk|contrib 04:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @PacificDepths, then what about the rest of Category:Taxa by author - wouldn't those also be NONDEF? — Qwerfjkltalk 17:23, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    @Qwerfjkl I'm new here and I would defer to others. I interpret WP:NONDEF: "The defining characteristics of an article's topic are central to categorizing the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic, such as the nationality of a person or the geographic location of a place.

    I do not believe that the namer of a taxon is a defining characteristic, save for individual that meet notability standards WP:BIO. In particular for R. Pascual, I don't see WP:RS to claim that most of these taxa are indeed named by R. Pascual.

    If there is pre-existing consensus that all taxa should be categorized by their namers, I shall defer to that consensus. 🌊PacificDepths^talk|contrib 06:21, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:02, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• PacificDepths has a fair point that namers are (at least) a borderline defining characteristic of taxa, but in order to delete the entire category tree it may be wise to first have a discussion on the Wikiproject talk page. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:33, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Crown Court buildings. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:28, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Crown Courts to Category:Crown Court venues

Nominator's rationale: There is only one Crown Court so it is incorrect to name the category for its venues as 'Crown Courts' Mauls (talk) 20:00, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not sure if WP:OCVENUE applies here. If kept, certainly rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:36, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Perhaps Rename but if so, the target should be Category:Crown Court buildings. The nom is technically correct, but it is common practice to refer to a trial at (for example) Wolverhampton Crown Court. Except where the court is in a county council building which was originally an assize court (as at Hereford), the court doubling as the council chamber, these are buildings solely used for courts, but sometimes with a magistrates court or county court under the same roof. Actually, I see no objection to a keep. WP:OCVENUE prohibits multi-purpose venues being categorised because they are used for an occasional event, but some venues are dedicated to a particular purpose and can be categorised as for example Category:Football venues in England, because that is their prime purpose, even if they may occasionally stage pop concerts or Billy Graham evangelistic rallies. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:33, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree that "building" is more appropriate than "venue". Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 10:07, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:37, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Please close as Category:Crown Court buildings, as it is clear no one else has any suggestions. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:43, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:31, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Video games about kidnapping (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Similar to the XfD on child abductions, same rationale. I'd be happy to copy-paste if desired. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 16:33, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• This requires a batch nomination, otherwise it is going to take very long before all subcategories of this tree are discussed and the discussion will only repeat itself. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:14, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:31, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Video games set in Cumbria (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: One entry. Not needed. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 16:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, the one article is in as many as 11 "set in location" categories, that surely is overcategorization. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:01, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:33, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Afro-Arab peoples to Category:Arab people of African descent

Nominator's rationale: Seem to have the same scope as Category:Arab people of African descent. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 10:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Make sense and I agree. I have went through all the people who were listed in the List of Afro-Arabs to categorise them as Afro-Arabs peoples (and reduced them to 6 from over 80), and I can attest that all of them fit the Category:Arab people of African descent. If not merged, the Category:Afro-Arab peoples should be renamed to Category:Afro-Arab people similar to African-American people FuzzyMagma (talk) 10:30, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete (rather than merge) because the articles are already in more specific descent categories in the tree of Category:Arab people of African descent. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:46, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:30, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Almost duplicates another category. Orientls (talk) 06:27, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Murree District. bibliomaniac15 03:31, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose merging Category:Murree Tehsil to Category:Murree District

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one article and one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:28, 20 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 10:16, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I see three subcats. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 17:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:29, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Query - what happened to Category:Muree hill tribes, which was there and populated when I last looked? Oculi (talk) 03:23, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• It was populated with two articles that did not mention anything about Muree hill tribes and ultimately deleted per WP:C1. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:12, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. — Qwerfjkltalk 09:34, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename. RM closed as no consensus.

• Rename Category:Female Sahabah to Category:Women companions of the Prophet
• Rename Category:Non-Arab Sahabah to Category:Non-Arab companions of the Prophet (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:39, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Female Sahabah to Category:Female companions of the Prophet
• Propose renaming Category:Non-Arab Sahabah to Category:Non-Arab companions of the Prophet added October 28th

Nominator's rationale: Rename to be consistent with the parent category Category:Companions of the Prophet. Al-Andalusi (talk) 08:07, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: Also Category:Non-Arab Sahabah -> Category:Non-Arab companions of the Prophet Al-Andalusi (talk) 01:22, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I have added it to the nomination and tagged the category page. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:26, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per nom (or probably "women companions", most categories use "women"). Marcocapelle (talk) 16:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Category:Women companions of Muhammad (with the parent category moved to Category:Companions of Muhammad. We should be very wary of describing any religious leader as prophet in Wikivoice, although I recognise that "companions of the Prophet" is a widely-used term: If people object to the parent category move, then I would support Category:Women companions of the Prophet per the above. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 17:38, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree that "companions of the Prophet" sounds POVish, but that is a problem to be solved in article space. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree; I've raised the issue at Talk:Companions of the Prophet. Just thought I'd explain my rationale fully. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 18:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: RM at Talk:Companions of the Prophet#Requested move 27 October 2022 ongoing.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:28, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Upmerge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:41, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:Video games about child abduction (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: To quote @Jc37::

Does the work in question merely contain examples of the item in question? Or is the subject of the work the item in question. So does it merely include one or more ham sandwiches, or is it a work with the theme of ham sandwiches? Or in this case - Are there merely child abductions in the work? Or is it a work with theme of child abductions? And note, that's a theme about child abductions in general, not a specific child abduction.

Simply put: not a WP:CATDEF. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 16:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Soetermans. Thank you for the ping.

In the future, you're welcome to quote me, but please link back to the quote - in this case, to here.

Also, please don't edit my words as if they were mine - In this specific case where you swapped out the word "brothers" for "child abduction". You could alternatively say "to apply User:jc37's comments here, xyz is applicable, etc."

Anyway, thanks again for the ping : ) - jc37 14:29, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply, @Jc37:. My apologies, I shouldn't have said I quoted you directly, when it was only inspired. Good reasoning though! I'll be sure not to say I quote you when not doing so in the future. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 15:32, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• At least merge to parent categories per WP:SMALLCAT and I would appreciate a mass nomination about themes in video games. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:06, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  A mass nom might not be a bad idea, - jc37 14:29, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and I would've been happy to help, but I'm editing on mobile usually, and that's not easy for multiple nominations in my experience. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 15:32, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: weak delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:51, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose deleting Category:NATO member countries and the Russo-Ukrainian war (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This category was (technically incorrectly, it seems) nominated for deletion on 31 August 2022 by Mindaur (talk · contribs) with the following rationale:

Kleinpecan (talk) 03:52, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, we might have something like Category:NATO involvement in the Russo-Ukrainian war for NATO as an organization, or Category:United States involvement in the Russo-Ukrainian war for an individual country, but "NATO countries" is too broad. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:40, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Rename, Repurpose and purge -- Something like Category:Support for Ukraine by NATO members, 2022-- might be appropriate. Individual soldiers serving in Ukraine should be purges to something like Category:Foreign personnel serving in Ukrainian armed forces. NATO counties is a clearly defined set, so that there is no objection to the principle of such a category. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:11, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 20:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• While NATO countries is a clearly defined set, we never categorize by a set of countries except by continent. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:02, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:23, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 09:52, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Propose renaming Category:Campaigns of Nadir Shah Afshar to Category:Campaigns of Nader Shah

Nominator's rationale: Consistency, the name of the person in Wikipedia is Nader Shah, not "Nadir Shah Afshar". HistoryofIran (talk) 10:44, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per WP:C2D, this could probably have been listed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:07, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I didn't know that was a thing (though I guess it obviously makes sense). Good to know for next time, thanks! --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.