Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 1

March 1

Category:Orleans Arena

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: manual merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:03, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This category contains almost exclusively articles about events which happened in the arena, not about the arena itself. Therefore, it makes more sense to merge to an appropriate subcategory per WP:PERFCAT. This is in line with the recent consensus here. User:Namiba 22:49, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So let's merge all and then manually move those that don't belong, right?--User:Namiba 00:14, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Genderqueer categories

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete Category:Genderqueer. Emptied (no consensus to keep). Merge Category:Genderqueer people. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:06, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale "Genderqueer" is a slightly dated term for a non-binary person or a type of non-binary person. The former genderqueer article has itself been merged into the Non-binary gender article already. That article describes the term as a synonym for non-binary. Pinging users: @User:Bearcat, @User:Another Believer, @User:TheTranarchist, @User:Mathglot, @User:Marcocapelle, @User:Fayenatic london, @User:StarTrekker, @User:Place Clichy, @User:Anomalous+0, @User:Knoterification, @User:JDBauby. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 06:34, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Category:Genderqueer does seem redundant, I wouldn't be opposed to that category's deletion.
While genderqueer looks to have been largely replaced by the term non-binary, I wouldn't want the Category:Genderqueer people deleted at the moment. There is still a sizable enough amount of people who self-identify as genderqueer, and I think it would be better suited as a subcategory inside of Category:People with non-binary gender identities.
JDBauby (talk) 19:29, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:23, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I note that Category:Genderqueer has been emptied. In its current state it should just be deleted, as User:Trystan already mentioned. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:08, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom, the above discussion and the below discussion about queer identities. Unfortunately, categories cannot be refined in a multitude of thin elaborated nuances,otherwise they lose their primary role, which is to be a navigation tool. Nuances of identity are better served by detailed and in-context explanations in topic and individual articles. Place Clichy (talk) 13:26, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Queer categories

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 9#Queer categories

Category:Fascist rulers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 18:37, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose splitting Category:Fascist rulers to Category:Fascist heads of state and Category:Fascist heads of government, both under Category:Fascist politicians
Alternative:
Nominator's rationale: WP:ARBITRARYCAT, WP:OVERLAPCAT. Category:Rulers is currently a child of Category:Sovereignty suggesting that "rulers" are sovereign. Some are not rulers, they were elected. Most are in parallel related categories, not aid to navigation.
Previously kept:
William Allen Simpson (talk) 03:56, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Norden1990, Hmains, Johnpacklambert, Peterkingiron, Marcocapelle, Johnbod, Gidonb, and Dimadick: active participants in 2015.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:17, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very good question. In the course of years I realized more and more that, especially in politics, reliable sources can be heterogeneous in content. The fact that some reliable sources explicitly label someone as e.g. a fascist is not good enough. Leadership or representation of a party, called by its name, is far more objective. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Per the reasons given by Johnbod. -- 2804:248:FBB4:800:70CE:7A2C:450F:31CD (talk) 01:07, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- This is a wide-ranging category for a mixture of rulers with various titles, including the heads of WWII puppet governments under German Nazi suzerainty. This is a high level category, where a vague term serves us well. This is not an excessively large category and does not need to be split. There may be a question in some cases whether the term Fascist is correctly applied, or is rather a term of abuse by others. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:54, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timothytyy (talk) 10:35, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose -- In line with what Peterkingiron, Johnbod, and 2804:248:FBB4:800:70CE:7A2C:450F:31CD are saying, deleting the "Fascist rulers" category, and splitting the category into "Fascist heads of state" and "Fascist heads of government" categories would do more harm than good. Also, I think there would be more debates about what constitutes a "head of government" or a "head of state", rather than using a more generally used distinction like "ruler", meaning that such debates could be avoided to stay with the current set-up instead. Historyday01 (talk) 13:46, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update: "Category:Socialist rulers" was deleted, "Category:Communist rulers" is still undecided. Marcocapelle and I have stated at the latter CfD that we would support deletion of "Category:Communist rulers" is both "Category:Socialist rulers" and "Category:Fascist rulers" would also be deleted; and "Category:Socialist rulers" has been deleted now, which sets an important precedent. Therefore, rather than supporting the split proposal (which I originally suggested myself), I'm now leaning towards Delete. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:05, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update - I've withdrawn splitting, as there is insufficient support. Delete, per Marco, Place, Nederlandse.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:09, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've now spent some hours purging. Many/most of the articles were added by IP editors, 10-20 at a time. Hard to say whether they were all the same editor, but certainly the same pattern. Looking at those contributors, about half of those edits have since been reverted, and I've removed many more. Some of the articles were ministers or even prime ministers, but with no mention of fascism regarding the government (10 had no mention of fascism anywhere in their article). Many were Japanese collaborators during WW2, but Fascism isn't an appropriate category for them. In any case, many were not "rulers". One article explicitly stated "did not rule directly." It seems most were added without actually reading the articles based upon membership in some other category. A garbage intersection category.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Good job! Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:19, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above and nom. — Qwerfjkltalk 19:19, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. --Skovl (talk) 17:44, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Brainships

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Brain–computer interfacing in fiction. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:12, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Brainships to Category:Fiction about brainships
Nominator's rationale: Clearly there are no ships of this kind that merit their own article. The category should be moved to Category:Brain–computer interfacing in fiction instead. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:09, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:03, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:03, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American musicians of Caribbean descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 18:45, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: proliferation of tiny categories with unusual and irrelevant hierarchical organization. Wikipedia:Category naming does not provide for by region encapsulating by country. Only occupation alongside sportspeople?
Summary: There's no rhyme nor reason for this convoluted tree, entangled with others, very few articles. This is less like navigation, more of "a maze of twisty little passages, all different."
William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:07, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Containerise?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:00, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Do not containerise — that would perpetuate this grouping of tiny, trivial intersections, for regional classification by race. WP:COP-HERITAGE:Categories that intersect heritage with occupation, residence, or other such categories should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right.... Jamaicans and Haitians are closest (French colonies), but do not share the same culture or patois. Haitians and Dominicans share the same island, but are culturally and ethnically different groups.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 04:50, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Oculi.--User:Namiba 15:22, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The argument that musicians should be assigned to a genre of music because of the place where their ancestors were born makes me nauseous. There are excellent classical musicians from the Caribbean, and there are also quite good calypso or reggae artists from many other places. Place Clichy (talk) 10:28, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sportspeople of Caribbean descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 18:44, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: recent proliferation of tiny categories with unusual and irrelevant hierarchical organization. Wikipedia:Category naming does not provide for by region encapsulating by country.
Summary: There's no rhyme nor reason for this convoluted tree, entangled with others, very few articles. Continuing removals after categories were emptied by previous discussions.
Followup to:
  1. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 12#Category:Latin American sportspeople by ethnic or national origin
  2. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 January 21#Category:North American sportspeople by ethnic or national origin
William Allen Simpson (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:08, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Containerise?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:58, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Do not containerise — that would perpetuate this grouping of tiny, trivial intersections, for regional classification by race. WP:COP-HERITAGE:Categories that intersect heritage with occupation, residence, or other such categories should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right.... Jamaicans and Haitians are closest (French colonies), but do not share the same culture or patois. Haitians and Dominicans share the same island, but are culturally and ethnically different groups.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:14, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, do not containerize (as an answer to the relisting comment). This recent addition of an intermediate level of regional groupings for the intersection of descent and occupation, just for sportspeople, does not seem to be a good idea seen previous discussions and the guidelines on trivial intersections. Extending it to other occupations would not be a better idea either. It is just not a level that brings any value in terms of either navigation or encyclopedic information. What's next, Indian plumbers of Mercosur descent? Place Clichy (talk) 10:36, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pennsylvania state historical marker significations

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 19:23, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Pennsylvania state historical marker significations (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Non-defining category per WP:NONDEFINING and WP:OCAWARD: people, buildings, and events are generally not notable because they have a historic marker, but due to their fame may have one or more historical markers or other commemorations (e.g. receiving awards, appearing on stamps or currency, having books and films made about them, etc.). But merely having a commemoration is not defining in this case. The presence of an honorary marker is adequately covered in List of Pennsylvania state historical markers and its subsidiary county lists (e.g. Centre County). Compare to Category:Blue plaques, and its similar previous discussions regarding categorizing people and buildings. --Animalparty! (talk) 02:48, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:44, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Being designated as significantly notable to the history of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is absolutely a defining characteristic for each so designated article topic where historical significance has been publicly marked, although it is not necessarily the only defining characteristic for each article topic. "Nondefining" makes no restriction that categorization of article topics be restricted to only one defining characteristic or to arbitrarily determined "most important" defining characteristics for any one topic. Further, notability may not be dependent on any singular defining characteristic, although the latter could contribute substantially to evidence of notability in some of these instances. The concept of "notability" appears to be inappropriately conflated with defining characteristics in this nomination. Note that these historical designations are not awards so that OCAWARDS is not applicable. Also note the overarching category Category:Blue plaques was retained in the prior discussion, which this category is most similar too, as it is not broken down into specific people or building categories. CrazyPaco (talk) 17:34, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Crazypaco. The well over 200 entries show that this is a functional and category. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:09, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:11, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:56, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People of the Danish West Indies

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge/rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 19:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Seems to be the same topic, I'm not aware "of" and "from" generally being split in categorization. ★Trekker (talk) 22:52, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@StarTrekker, Marcocapelle, and Fayenatic london: sadly Johnpacklambert made from British a month ago, and of Danish 8 months ago. No consistency.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:11, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have left him a note. – Fayenatic London 13:35, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:25, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Aha. That's very confusing. Why are they named like an "ethnicity" category? They mostly seem to be fairly small shim categories with "planter" (owned a large plantation with slaves) articles, and "governor of" subcategories; beginning to smell a bit. Also, pirates!
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 14:50, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:48, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Las Vegas Monorail templates

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:15, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only 1 member. WP:C2F did not include cases where there was only 1 template; I am boldly adding it now, but will of course not take advantage of that for this nomination. – Fayenatic London 15:08, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Found Template:Las Vegas Monorail Navbox but I've sent it to TfD as it has only 1 non redirect link. Gonnym (talk) 15:43, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Palestinian terrorism

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 9#Category:Palestinian terrorism

Category:Terrorist incidents on underground rapid transit systems

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 9#Category:Terrorist incidents on underground rapid transit systems

Category:Underground railways

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 9#Category:Underground railways

Category:Fundidores Monterrey players

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:14, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Renaming to reflect the actual name of the team, in line with similarly named categories (see here). JTtheOG (talk) 03:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Controversial national anthems

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 18:14, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per similar discussions such as Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_February_25#Category:Controversial_songs - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 02:17, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 10:18, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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