Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 22

March 22

Category:Princes of England

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:English princes. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:18, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Rename as Category:English princes and make it consistent with Category:English princesses (which Category:Princesses of England also redirects to), Category:Scottish princes, Category:Scottish princesses, Category:Welsh princes, Category:Welsh princesses, Category:British princes, and Category:British princesses. Keivan.fTalk 19:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Children of national leaders of Lebanon

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Children of presidents of Lebanon. Tammam Salam will be relocated manually. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:20, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per actual category content, these are children of presidents of Lebanon. The only exception is Tammam Salam, son of Lebanese prime minister Saeb Salam, so we can exclude him. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Children of national leaders of France

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Children of presidents of France. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:22, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per actual category content, these are children of presidents of France. The only exception is Jean Ramadier, son of French premier Paul Ramadier, so we can exclude him.
Sidenote: Louis-Napoléon, Prince Imperial was the son of Napoleon III, who has been both president of France and emperor of the French, but although there is a Category:Illegitimate children of French monarchs (including Category:Illegitimate children of Napoleon I), Louis-Napoléon was legitimate, and there is no category like "children of French monarchs/emperors" (except for individuals like Category:Children of Louis XVI), and maybe we don't need to have one. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nudity stubs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Underpopulated stub category, with no evidence of approval by Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting. As always, stub categories are not free for just any editor to create on a personal whim for a small handful of articles -- the minimum size bar for a stub category is 60 articles, and for that reason a stub category has to be approved for creation, but there's no evidence that approval was sought.
It's also not altogether clear that this would actually be of much value, as it's an impossibly broad subject area that could encompass thousands upon thousands of articles -- even just among the ten articles filed here, there's already a cross-section of artworks, models, photographers, naturist activists and television series, meaning this could potentially have to encompass every single model, every single artist, every single naturist, every single porn performer, every single porn director, every single porn magazine, every single porn film, every single television series and every single artwork that has anything to do with nudity at all, so this isn't a particularly helpful or unifying criterion on which to group such a diverse array of topics. Bearcat (talk) 19:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Horizon Zero Dawn

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Horizon (video game series). (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:26, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The category seems to now encompass the video game series as a whole, rather than just the first title of the series. Steel1943 (talk) 18:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Corupá

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:People from Santa Catarina (state). (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:30, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Corupá propose merge to Category:People from Santa Catarina (state), only one entry as per WP:SMALLCAT GrahamHardy (talk) 18:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Iranian dynasties

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename & purge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 10:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C per parent Category:Monarchy in Persia and Iran. Remove Category:Empires and kingdoms of Iran as a redundant layer; both are already children of Category:Monarchy in Persia and Iran. Remove all dynasties that didn't reign over the territory of Persia/Iran, but were only "Iranian" in the sense of the Iranian languages, because language family is WP:NONDEFINING per precedents listed at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 March 22#Category:Turkic dynasties. This would exclude Category:Ariarathid dynasty, Category:Kingdom of Cappadocia, Category:Kings of Cappadocia, Category:Orontid dynasty (probably; it was mostly located outside the present-day borders of Iran), Category:Pharnacid dynasty, and Category:Kingdom of Pontus, all of which reigned over territory in Anatolia/Asia Minor or the South Caucasus, outside of the present-day borders of Iran. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Turkic dynasties

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete/manual merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 11:04, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per precedents:
Although it is arguably reasonable to categorise a dynasty according to the ethnicity or native/primary language spoken by its reigning house, the language family that native/primary language belonged to is WP:NONDEFINING. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Added Burial sites. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American people

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:32, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Basically it is C2D, and more concise as well. Skovl (talk) 14:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Either many of these categories need to be split, reparented or redefined/renamed. Category:Danish people, for example, is a parent of both Category:People by nationality and Category:North Germanic peoples, Category:Germanic ethnic groups, Category:Germanic people. As if a sub-Saharan African woman acquiring Danish nationality suddenly becomes a Germanic-speaking, Odin-worshipping, axe-wielding Viking. (Granted, she'll probably need to pass a Danish language proficiency test and a Denmark civics test, but you get the idea). The latter stuff is probably best grouped in Category:Danes (currently a redirect to Category:Danish people) and treated as a historical category that ends somewhere in the Middle Ages (Category:Germanic people by century currently ends in the 12th century), while we keep the nationality status stuff in Category:Danish people. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:30, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women members of the Riiginõukogu

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Women members of upper houses and Category:Women legislators in Estonia. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:33, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. No potential to grow. Estopedist1 (talk) 13:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Members of the Board of Control for Cricket in India

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 11:08, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Being on the BCCI board is WP:NOTDEFINING as most of the people there are primarily known for other things (either professional cricketers, or politicians). Upmerge seems sensible to me, some of them should be in Category:Presidents of the Board of Control for Cricket in India. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:SELL Student Games

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 10:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:SELL Student Games (withdrawn)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: withdrawn (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 12:17, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 10:42, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Request withdrawn: merging request is more correct solution--Estopedist1 (talk) 10:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth people

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:46, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The standard seems to be "from". People from multi-ethnic empires should not use a demonym form. See also yesterday's nom for 16th century. Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:52, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • We have it because of nationalistic-minded editors. "My country wasn't just established in 1919, it has existed for centuries". Complete guff, but there's a lot of it about. It is not historical to speak of "18th-century Ukraine" as no such country existed. It is possible to argue that Ukrainians as an ethnic group existed in the 18th century (but they might have self-identified as Ruthenian / Little Rus'). This is where the use of demonyms is so pernicious - they elide this important distinction. Demonyms allow us to pretend that "18th-century Ukrainian people" can mean either the state or the nation; in some cases that is true (e.g. islands like Cyprus and Ireland), but in most cases it is not true. Precision is to be preferred over sleight-of-hand. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry but you are wrong, we are interested in what the sources say. If Ivan Kotliarevsky is defined by WP:RS as a "Ukrainian writer" then he should be in the Category:18th-century Ukrainian writers category, whether Wikipedians are "nationalist-minded" or not is irrelevant.
    The fact that there is no Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation category is WP:OR and should be changed as soon as possible. Marcelus (talk) 12:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Laurel is right. See also my comments under the CfR "Category:American people" above, where ethnicity/language and nationality/citizenship are inappropriately mixed up so as to disqualify anyone not belonging to the majority-language group or majority-ethnic group in a country from ever becoming a citizen of that country. Which is incorrect, of course. This line of thinking and categorisation is the result of ethnic nationalism, plain and simple, and Wikipedia should fix it. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:43, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's wrong we should follow WP:RS, that's your own POV. If some person is described as "Polish" he should be in such category, if he is described as "Lithuanian" he should be in that category, if he is described as both he should be in two categories. That's the only proper way to do this, that follows policies and guidelines. Marcelus (talk) 09:16, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oops Thank you. Error fixed. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He is absolutely right, at this point it is a complete mess. There is no category for "Polish people of 18th century", they have all been catagorized as "Polish-Lithuania" which is WP:OR because many of them are referred to by WP:RS as Poles and not "Polish-Lithuanian" (see: Polish-Lithuanian identity). Moreover, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was inhabited by people of various nationalities, including Poles. At this point we have categories for 18th-century Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Germans, etc., but not for Poles.
In summary this category should be renamed Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation, a parent category should be created for it called Category:18th-century people from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by occupation.
Contrary to what Marcocapelle (talk · contribs) claims, talking about Poles in the 18th century is not a manifestation of "nationalism," but firstly respecting WP:RS, and secondly realizing that the PLC was a federated state, consisting of two states: the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which did not cease to exist after the union.Marcelus (talk) 10:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reply @Marcelus: I see nothing in what you have written that is contrary to the current nomination. It fixes the "by state" problem. Your comments address the "by nation" problem. They should be raised as a separate nomination. Laurel Lodged (talk) 07:51, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, because as I said: In summary this category should be renamed Category:18th-century Polish people by occupation, a parent category should be created for it called Category:18th-century people from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by occupation. Marcelus (talk) 08:02, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What about Jan Henryk Wołodkowicz? Would he be happy to be called Polish? Yet he sits quite happily in Category:18th-century Polish–Lithuanian people by occupation. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:35, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why shouldn't it be? A typical representative of the nobility of the period. He was Lithuanian and Polish and even French. There is nothing unusual about this figure. Marcelus (talk) 13:54, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcelus: His article only describes him as Lithuanian. I see no citations for any other nationality. Yes he was a citizen of the P-LC state, but that does not make him a P-LC person. That's the whole point. You are mistakenly conflating the two entities. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Laurel Lodged, but this category at the very start was about "Polish people", then it was moved to "Polish-Lithuanian people", as a result, there is no category for Poles in the 18th century. First of all, this is procedurally wrong. Therefore, this erroneous transfer must be reversed.
Even if this one character should not be in this category (which is doubtful, simply the Polishness of this character is not mentioned in the article yet) it does not change much. Marcelus (talk) 16:28, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One exception is sufficient to undermine the argument. There are tree structures "by state" and there are tree structures "by nation"; this is the former. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why? Just remove him from the category. Also there was both Polish state and Polish nation in 18th century so your argument is irrelevant Marcelus (talk) 17:00, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of Czech Republic

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:38, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Why separated? Estopedist1 (talk) 07:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Children of national leaders of Russia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Children of presidents of Russia. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:42, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename per actual category content, these are children of presidents Yeltsin and Putin. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:44, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional children of heads of government

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Fictional children of heads of state. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 09:40, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename per actual category content. Monarchs are not usually the head of government while they are always head of state. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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