Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2008 October 23

Image:TLC-Crazy-Sexy-Hits-407927.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jay59 111 (notify | contribs).

• orphaned, it looks non-free LegoK^ontribsT^alkM 00:00, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Downtown Kokomo.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by TheMatty (notify | contribs).

• orphan LegoK^ontribsT^alkM 00:01, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:StandardLifeHQ.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ScottMacGregor1985 (notify | contribs).

• orphan LegoK^ontribsT^alkM 00:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Rochard.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ian M.S. Royer (notify | contribs).

• orphan and unencyclopedic LegoK^ontribsT^alkM 00:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Marshab.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ian M.S. Royer (notify | contribs).

• orphan and unencyclopedic LegoK^ontribsT^alkM 00:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Fakes LD.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Vancera (notify | contribs).

• Way too high-res. Article that it's used in won't survive afd, so why bother resizing. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 04:28, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:CTC7 1980-882.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Eddie Blake (notify | contribs).

• Image is copyrighted to Southern Cross Broadcasting Bidgee (talk) 08:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Prime 1988.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Eddie Blake (notify | contribs).

• Image is copyrighted to Prime Television Bidgee (talk) 08:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:HSV719752.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Eddie Blake (notify | contribs).

• Copyrighted to the Seven Network and not being used on Wikipedia Bidgee (talk) 08:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:33story.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by pallen33 (notify | contribs).

• questionable copyright Pallen33 (talk) 14:28, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:2006rose.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by User:Picktownfan1 (notify | contribs).

• questionable copyright Newport Backbay (talk) 14:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:John bannon.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by LukeNE (notify | contribs).

• Copyrighted picture of living Australian. Free version available: Image:John Bannon.jpeg Damiens.rf 16:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep There is no "free version available" as the image the nominator has uploaded to take the place of an appropriate, conservative image befitting a State Premier is taken completely out of context. John Bannon was not a bar tender, nor was he ever employed as part of a Waiting staff (it may be a "nice image" but it is highly inappropriate to add it to the aforementioned article without a proper caption, and as no information is given on the image page said caption cannot accurately be added). The rationale given on the image page is entirely justified. The image is only orphaned now because the nominator has removed it from all pages. ABVS1936 (talk) 06:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - per ABVS1936. I'm not sure what the context is of Image:John Bannon.jpeg - politician John Bannon dressed as a bartender, presumably at some sort of comedy revue night - but it is NOT an appropriate substitute for Image:John bannon.jpg. Peter Ballard (talk) 06:44, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change to Abstain - the cropped waiter photo Image:John_Bannon.jpg now seems suitable, but I'm still unsure whether Image:John bannon.jpg might still be useful, so I'm abstaining. Peter Ballard (talk) 02:25, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I still feel that the publicity image supplied by the State Parliment is a more appropriate image to be on the page of an ex-Premier. See for instance the David Tonkin and Des Corcoran pages. There is as such still no appropriate replacement for the image in question. ABVS1936 (talk) 03:45, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per above. Timeshift (talk) 08:52, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - If we have a free image it should be used over a non-free image; that is what supports our mission. If the free image in its complete form is "highly inappropriate", it can be edited and made into a simple headshot and used in the info box. The image can't be that inappropriate, it was taken by (presumably) a newspaper or agency, the Canberra Times and now resides with the National Library. Non-free images of living people should be a very last resort (some argue that no image is better then a non-free one.) --Jordan 1972 (talk) 12:36, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete "Free version available" doesn't have to mean we have one in hand. IF he is living and someone can reasonably take a picture of him then we don't use a fair use one just to illustrate him. Protonk (talk) 07:18, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Policy specifically is on point unless there is something the non-free version does that no picture taken today could do. Hobit (talk) 18:31, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as abundantly and clearly failing WP:NFCC#1 per the above. — pd_THOR ^{| =/\=} | 14:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Why are we even debating this? Delete: Free version commons:Image:John_Bannon.jpg is of course a replacement that conveys the same information. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:21, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Australian Alphanumeric State Route A21.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by LukeNE (notify | contribs).

• not used/useful. Damiens.rf 17:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Overtaken by events - file is useful and is now widely in use. Pdfpdf (talk) 22:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Wow! File has been added to 200 articles. I guess we don't need to delete it anymore. --Damiens.rf 12:45, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  ...and now it's orphan again (except for one use on a talk page). Easy come, easy go. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 02:07, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as replaced. OT, shouldn't all of the images used therein be converted to .svg files? — pd_THOR ^{| =/\=} | 14:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mustioport.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by PAHouseGOP (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Probable Copyright violation, Looks like a studio portrait. Uploader needs to provide more evidence he is the copyright holder. Nv8200p talk 17:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - user uploaded many similar photos, unaware of the implications of doing so. He later removed all of them when I explained the situation [14]. Perhaps all of the similar images should be similarly deleted.[15]--HoboJones (talk) 18:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mutant_Volty.PNG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Chaosemeraldking (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 17:59, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mutley.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Chambers211 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:00, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Muvee_logo_web.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Muvee (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, maybe spam Nv8200p talk 18:00, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MuveeTech_logo.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MuveeTechnologies (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, maybe spam Nv8200p talk 18:01, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mwior.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Boonie45 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:05, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_Death_Defying_act.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Vfd8990 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_Grandfather_Photo_from_January_17.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MisterWiki (notify | contribs).

*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• The file is not orphan, keep. --MisterWiki talking! :-D - 18:56, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep; we permit users to post a small number of personal photos on their user pages, so long as it doesn't reach the level of violating WP:NOTWEBHOST. --MCB (talk) 20:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Withdraw nomination. I missed the links when I nominated the image. Sorry about that. -Nv8200p talk 00:58, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_Hazel_Eye.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ashantifan1224 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_Name.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Animum (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_TD.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by LifestyleAuto (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Gog 20080927 1280x1024.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Cynical (notify | contribs).

• Obsolete. Replaced by Image:Gog 20081023 1280x1024.png. Cynical (talk) 18:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_basses_2007.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Omarbass25 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_banner.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kess4139 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_chemical_romance--large-msg-1158.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Prozakairlines (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_dog_Lucky.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Fattyjwoods (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_escape_maze.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Supersmiley (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_handmade_cards_006.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Castlewall (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_life.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by BikA06 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:46, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_overlord_low.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Bence560 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:46, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_rides_001.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Hoodicoff (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 18:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Logo_jpg.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Cj5839 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:03, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Logo_h.f.d.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Areskaratepe (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:03, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Logo_for_userpage.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Qst (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:04, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Lolapornstae.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Sfdrag (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, possible Copyright violation Nv8200p talk 19:07, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N2212984714_303.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Dcs152 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N22501103_30318065_5428.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Macvivo (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N20915155_32867421_3751-1-.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Dfeuers (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N1596630106_30007339_2907.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Semaj4712 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N1596510137_30010780_6655.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Toeknee127 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per above reasons. --Leoboudv (talk) 04:09, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Derrick_Sims.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Chowningsferry (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N1415940333_30025582_3886.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nothinlikecaleb (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Low quality Nv8200p talk 19:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Image is out of focus and poor quality. --Leoboudv (talk) 04:10, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N1325580067_11342_6382.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Gmb22 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N1241550251_30226539_2763.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Augustulus (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N1225470085_30061008_4036-1.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Suedeshotgun91 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Low quality Nv8200p talk 19:15, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N12129386_34800623_5033.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by B3westmo (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:N1124640185_30110132_4352.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Dongixu (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:16, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mzc.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Fersiersaa (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mário_Chaves.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mário_Chaves (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mysrconline.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ssendi (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:19, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Myspacesexyface.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Caseydesmond (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:19, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Myspace1.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Shannongames1979 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Myspace-band-message-1.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Friendbot (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Myk5b.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Ronnyhaklay (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:24, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mydigitalshare.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jacklaidlaw (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Myah.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Djwings (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:28, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MyFlag.GIF (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by ASJ94 (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:28, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MyDedhambanner1.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Briancua (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:34, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MyCircles_TM_logo_signature.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mycircles (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MyA_background6_v1_2048.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Yannisap (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:My_village.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Sadanandemcy (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Murdaeyez.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Wickedblue (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Murderface.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by N.Flen (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Murtagh1.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mcgivnef (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Murty_BVNS_Profile.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Drizzlein (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Musallam_Bseiso_in_1990s.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mwbseiso (notify | contribs).

• Looks like a scan of a studio portrait. No evidence uploader is the copyright holder as claimed. Nv8200p talk 19:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MushIT_Logo.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MushIT (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Copyright violation? Nv8200p talk 19:44, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Music_CD.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Pikminlover (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• This is a pixel-by-pixel identical copy of Image:Nuvola devices cdaudio unmount.png from Commons. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 02:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Music_Is_Power_Podcast_Logo.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Bulgaria_mitko (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Music_is_my_life.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by SoulJewels (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Music-4-cancer-website-2006.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Heinsommniack (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MusicMachine(Ottawa).png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Brian_Patrie (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, No evidence permission was granted to use image under GFDL Nv8200p talk 19:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Musical_logo.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Leeheonjin (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:57, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mustafa_asfour.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mustafaasfour (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mustafaasfour07.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Mustafaasfour (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Low quality Nv8200p talk 19:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mu_op.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Gretnablues (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:59, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mubashir.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Iranimubashir (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 19:59, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Muddyb_Producer.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Muddyb_Blast_Producer (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 20:06, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I indeed this image to be deleted! Feel free to delete it. It's really orphaned! Cheers,--Muddyb Blast Producer (talk) 05:47, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mughda_with_Rajat.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Aryarakshak (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, May be a Copyright violation Nv8200p talk 20:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mugs.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Bigat (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Low quality Nv8200p talk 20:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mr_Prince_Album_That_Was_Fresh.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nathandawg (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 20:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mr_maggio.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by WinstonNoble (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 20:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Mr_bungle.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Lacev (notify | contribs).

• Orphaned, Unencyclopedic Nv8200p talk 20:49, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]