Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2025 March 1

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March 1

17th century tables with holes for plates

This 1950s table [1]is a replica of a type of tables from 17th century France. I googled around and there are other old tables with these "holes"[2], so I'm inclined to believe that it's a real historical thing.

Is there are name for these type of "tables with sunken holes"? Were they exclusive to 17th century France? What are the "holes" used for?

I've seen suggestions that they're meant to hold plates, or bread bowls, or even food itself (the holes act as a bowl). But then again regular flat tables hold plates, or bread bowls, or even food itself just fine, so that explanation doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Epideurus (talk) 09:21, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Just an observation: the holes are not evenly spaced. MinorProphet (talk) 12:30, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps originally used on ships (to prevent bowls of food from sliding around as the ship rocks)? Blueboar (talk) 13:34, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is probably not the case. MinorProphet (talk) 18:04, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This table has a similar design and is described as being used in a French monastery. Stanleykswong (talk) 08:54, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It might make sense if it was designed for soup bowls to prevent spillage during meals. Stanleykswong (talk) 08:48, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As noted in the link Stanleykswong posted, these are called refectory tables. I've done a fair bit of googling and I can't find any explanation for the recesses (which don't seem to be that common in these tables). Another possible explanation is that they are to hold candles. --Viennese Waltz 09:11, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Probably not the main intention, but the depressions would encourage close seating positions, preventing sprawl and wasted space in perhaps a confined area (such as a farmhouse kitchen or a refectory). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.8.123.129 (talk) 16:16, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mr Lee's well-known school at Brighton

According to

Crewe, Marquess of (1931). "1: The Primrose Family; Boyhood; Eton". Lord Rosebery. Vol. 1. Toronto: Macmillan Company of Canada. pp. 12–13. Archibald Primrose, 5th Earl of Rosebery was, between going to Bayford House School in Hereford, and going to Eton, sent to "Mr Lee's well-known school at Brighton". The Earl of Hopetoun, in"The Earl of Hopetoun". In the Days of My Youth. London: C. Arthur Pearson, Limited. 1901. p. 276. says "At ten years of age I went to a private school at Brighton kept by a Mr. Lee. I felt the separation from home very much at first, but on the whole I was happy there. At that time Mr. Lee's school, which was attended by a great many sprigs of nobility, was known as the ' House of Lords,' while another school at Brighton, kept by a Mrs. Cooke, and much patronised by the sons of members of Parliament, was dubbed the ' House of Commons.'". Now, I am sure Mr Lee's school is not Brighton College. So, I would like to know more about it, and indeed about Mrs Cooke's establishment. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 23:46, 1 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Legh, 2nd Baron Newton, wrote favorably of his stay in Mr. Lee's school, devoting a couple of paragraphs in his autobiography (p. 4). Clarityfiend (talk) 01:10, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This will be the boy's school founded at Brighton in 1843 by William Randall Lee. Initially called Connaught House School, it moved to Ashdown House, East Sussex, in 1886 and became Ashdown House School. The school closed, mired in a sexual abuse scandal, in 2020. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 01:43, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, that led me to A History of Ashdown House, sadly only about a third of the book appears to have been scanned, but it's the part that covers the early years. DuncanHill (talk) 17:33, 2 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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