HOTmag (talk) 18:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It would be unusual to express the situation in such terms. Since the notion of energy "belonging to" some entity is not itself a physical concept – any practical approach to energy bookkeeping that satisfies the law of conservation of energy will do – this cannot be said to be wrong. It is, however, (IMO) not helpful. Does an apple belong to the space it occupies? Or does that space belong to the apple?  --Lambiam 23:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

First, I let you replace the notion of energy "belonging to" some entity, by the notion of energy "attributed to" some entity, or by the notion of energy "carried by" some entity, and the like. In other words, I'm only asking about the abstract relation (no matter what words we use to express it), between the energy and the space carrying the electromagnetic field, rather than about the specific term "belong to".

Second, I'm only asking about what the common usage is, rather than about whether such a usage is wrong or helpful.

The question is actually as follows: Since it's accepted to attribute energy to an electromagnetic field, is it also accepted to attribute energy to the space carrying that field?

So, is your first sentence a negative answer, also to my question when put in the clearer way I've just put it? HOTmag (talk) 03:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The answer remains the same. It would be a highly unusual use of language to "attribute" electromagnetic energy to a volume of space, in quite the same way as it would be strange to "attribute" the mass of an apple to the space the apple occupies. But as long as an author can define what they mean by this (and that meaning is consistent with the laws of physics), it is not wrong.  --Lambiam 13:21, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

An electromagnetic field that we may (even tenuously) conceive to have the form of a massless photon has, like the aforementioned apple (a biological mass) its own unique history, that being a finite path in Spacetime. I reject apparent effort to give spacetime any kind of identity capable of owning, or even anticipating owning or remembering having owned anything at all. Concepts of owning¹², attributing³ or whatever synonymous wordplay one chooses all assume identification that can never be attached to the spacial location of an em field. The energy of the photon is fully accounted for, usually as heat at its destination, when it is absorbed and no lasting trace remains anywhere. I am less patient than Lambian in my reaction to this OP who under guise of interest in surveying "what is commonly accepted" returns in pursuit of debate by patronisingly "allowing" us to reword his question in abstract "words that don't matter" to make it purportedly clearer and worth responders' time. Philvoids (talk) 14:55, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

chill outRich (talk) 02:15, 17 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Lambiam for your full answer. I always appreciate your replies, as well as your assuming good faith, always. HOTmag (talk) 15:08, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]