Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle

This is an explanatory essay about the Wikipedia:Consensus and Wikipedia:Be bold pages. This page provides additional information about concepts in the page(s) it supplements. This page is not one of Wikipedia's policies or guidelines, as it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community.

Shortcuts WP:BRDWP:BRD WP:CYCLEWP:CYCLE

This page in a nutshell: Making bold edits is encouraged, as it will result in either improving an article or stimulating discussion. If your edit gets reverted, do not revert again. Instead, begin a discussion with the person who reverted your change.

The BOLD, revert, discuss cycle (BRD) is one of many optional strategies that editors may use to seek consensus. This process is not mandated by Wikipedia policy, except in the case of enforced BRD, but it can be useful for identifying objections, keeping discussion moving forward and helping to break deadlocks. The four steps are:

1. Bold editing is a fundamental principle of Wikipedia. All editors are welcome to make positive contributions. It's how new information is added to Wikipedia. When in doubt, edit! Either the edit will get the attention of interested editors, or you will simply improve the page. Either is a good outcome.
2. Your edit might be reverted. The editor reverting you should be specific about their reasons in the edit summary or on the talk page. BRD does not encourage reverting, but recognizes that reversions happen. Try to revert only when necessary.
3. Discuss your bold edit with the person who reverted it. To follow BRD specifically, instead of one of the many alternatives, don't restore your bold edit, don't make a different edit to this part of the page, don't engage in back-and-forth reverting, and don't start any of the larger dispute resolution processes. Talk to that one person until the two of you have reached an agreement.
4. Cycle. To avoid bogging down in discussion, when you have a better understanding of the reverter's concerns, you may attempt a new edit that reasonably addresses some aspect of those concerns. You can try this even if the discussion has not reached an explicit conclusion, but be sure to avoid engaging in any kind of edit warring.

Care and diplomacy should be exercised. Some editors will see any reversion as a challenge, so be considerate and patient. In other situations, you may have better success with alternatives to this approach.

General overview

When to use

While editing a particular page that many editors are discussing with little to no progress being made, or when an editor's concerns are not addressed on the talk page after a reasonable amount of effort.

How to proceed

Find an interested person and reach a compromise or consensus with that person in a one-on-one discussion.

1. Be bold, and make what you currently believe to be the optimal changes based on your best effort. Your change might involve rewriting, rearranging, adding or removing information.
2. Wait until someone reverts your edit. You have now discovered your first interested person.
3. Discuss the changes you would like to make with this person, perhaps using other forms of Wikipedia dispute resolution as needed, and reach an agreement. Apply your agreement. When reverts have stopped, you are done.

Use cases

BRD is most useful for pages where seeking and achieving consensus in advance of the bold edit could be difficult, perhaps because it is not clear which other editors are watching or sufficiently interested in the page, though there are other suitable methods. BRD helps editors who have a good grasp of a subject to rapidly engage in discussion.

Examples of use cases include:

• Two factions are engaged in an edit war and a bold edit is made as a compromise or middle ground.
• Discussion has died out with no agreement being reached.
• Active discussion is not producing results.
• Your view differs significantly from a rough consensus on an emotionally loaded subject.
• Local consensus is currently opposed to making any changes whatsoever (when pages are frozen, "policy", or high-profile)

BRD is best used by experienced Wikipedia editors. It may require more diplomacy and skill to use successfully than other methods, and has more potential for failure. Using BRD in volatile situations is discouraged.

In general, BRD fails if:

• ...there is consensus in the community against the specific change you'd like to make.
• ...there is a dispute on the page, by editors with entrenched positions, and you are reigniting a debate that has achieved stalemate without consensus.
• ...the page is protected. (You may request unprotection.)
• ...the page is subject to some other access control. (Get the control lifted.)
• ...the discussion goes on too long or reaches another stalemate.
• ...a single editor is reverting changes and exhibiting other forms of ownership attitudes.
• ...individuals revert bold changes but aren't willing to discuss improvements to the page.
• ...the individual who reverts the bold change actually supports it, but is reverting as a proxy for some other, unidentified person.

BRD is especially successful where:

• ... people haven't really thought things through yet.
• ... people are only discussing policy or theory, and are not applying reasoning or trying to negotiate consensus.
• ... people are talking past each other instead of getting down to brass tacks with concrete proposals.

In short: boldly negotiate where no one has negotiated before.

What BRD is not

Shortcut

• WP:BRD-NOTWP:BRD-NOT

BRD is an optional process for experienced editors. BRD only works when both bold and reverting editors follow the process. BRD is not a get-out-of-discussion-free card for the reverter. If you tell someone to follow BRD when you revert their edits, then you need to follow BRD yourself, which means joining the discussion and explaining your substantive reasons for rejecting their edits. If you don't want to talk about it, then don't tell other editors to follow BRD.

• BRD is not a justification for imposing one's own view or for tendentious editing.
• BRD is not a valid excuse for reverting good-faith efforts to improve a page simply because you don't like the changes.
• BRD is never a reason for reverting. Unless the reversion is supported by policies, guidelines or common sense, the reversion is not part of the BRD cycle.
• BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than once. This applies equally to bold editors and to reverters. If your reversion is met with another bold effort, then you should consider discussing instead of reverting. The talk page is open to all editors, not just bold ones. The first person to start a discussion is the person who is best at following the BRD.
• BRD is not mandatory. Neither are editors obliged to start it nor are they obliged to stick to it just because you started it. They may try one of the alternatives given below, or even an alternative not mentioned here.
• BRD is not a valid course of action when using advanced permissions. Editors with permissions such as administrator or template editor can take actions that few editors are able to revert if they disagree, preventing the R step of BRD.

Process

Making bold edits may sometimes draw a response from an interested editor, who may have the article on their watchlist. If no one responds, you have the silent consensus to continue editing. If your edit is reverted, the BRD cycle has been initiated by the reverting editor.

After someone reverts your change, thus taking a stand for the existing version or against the change, you can proceed toward a consensus with the challenging editor through discussion on a talk page. While discussing the disputed content, neither editor should revert or change the content being discussed until a compromise or consensus is reached. Each pass through the cycle may find a new, interested editor to work with, or a new issue being disputed. If you follow the process as it is intended each time, you should eventually achieve consensus with all parties. As such, BRD is in general not an end unto itself; it moves the process past a blockage and helps people get back to cooperative editing.

If the BRD process works ideally (sometimes it does not), people will after a time begin to refrain from outright reversion, and edits will start to flow more naturally.

For each step in the cycle, here are some points to remember.

Edit warring

• Do not edit war. Once discussion has begun, restoring one's original edit without taking other users' concerns into account may be seen as disruptive. These so-called "re-reverts" are uncollaborative and could incur sanctions such as a block. The objective is to seek consensus, not force one's own will upon other editors. If you encounter several reverts, it is best not to escalate the situation by reverting again. Instead, try to build consensus through seeking additional input. Several methods for this are listed at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.
• However, don't get stuck on the discussion. Whichever side you happen to be on, try to move the discussion towards consensus by getting pro/con points identified so that a new edit may be attempted as quickly as possible. Feel free to try a new bold edit during the discussion if the new edit reasonably reflects some aspect of the opposing editors' concerns. This approach quickly determines whether the important issues have been resolved; if not, it brings the core sticking points into focus.
  • Warning: Repeatedly doing this can easily violate the 3RR policy and get good-faith editors blocked even during a productive editing exchange. Any such edits must be clear attempts to try a modified solution that reflects some aspect of the other editor's remarks. If you have reached three reverts within a 24-hour period (3RR bright-line rule), do not edit that content in any manner that reverts any content, in whole or in part, even as little as a single word, for over 24 hours. Doing so just past the 24 hours could be seen as gaming the system and sanctions may still be applied.

Additional considerations

• Because of the nature of Wikipedia, a BRD cycle may begin naturally, without either editor even realizing it. Once begun, its purpose requires that no reversion be counter-reverted. If this happens, something akin to stalling an aircraft happens. If you're not feeling up to it, it might be best to walk away for a while. Unlike the immediate danger of an aircraft plummeting to the ground, Wikipedia will be here a long while, so you can always come back later. Otherwise, if you have the energy and the time, use the suggestions on this page to "pull out". Then continue working as per the consensus.
• BRD is a way of letting you focus on one editor: You cared enough about the page to try to improve it, someone else cared enough to revert your bold change, and you both cared enough to find a compromise through discussion. This is an excellent collaborative style. But there may be other editors interested in that page, so a third editor might revert your compromise, or might revert your next attempt to improve it. If so, that's okay: You can repeat the BRD cycle with that third editor. Just start a new discussion and find a new compromise.

Alternatives

"BOLD, revert, discuss" doesn't work well in all situations. It is ideally suited to disputes that involve only a few people, all of whom are interested in making progress. There are many other options, and some may be more suitable for other situations.

Enforced BRD for contentious topics

The Arbitration Committee, administrators, or the community sometimes decides that specific contentious topics or individual articles should follow the "enforced BRD" process:

On pages where "enforced BRD" is in effect, an edit that is challenged by reversion may not be reinstated by the editor who originally made it until the editor (a) posts a talk page message discussing the edit and (b) waits 24 hours from the time of the talk page message.

See also

• Wikipedia:Method for consensus building
• Wikipedia:Short BRD
• Wikipedia:Negotiation
• Wikipedia:Perspective
• Wikipedia:Editing policy § Try to fix problems