Wikipedia:Simple talk

Proposal: create or signpost to a simple English grammar guide

I've only been editing for a very short amount of time, so this may already exist / have been discussed. One thing I've noticed is that there are quite a few grammatical mistakes on the wiki, which is not surprise, as it is aimed at children / non-native English speakers. Often, these are obvious examples of L1 interference (e.g. "since + is" instead of "since + has", other confusion of tenses or word order). Would it be an idea to either expand the WP:MOS with some guides on how to avoid these common mistakes, or maybe visibly signpost editors to a resource to help them with them? BobEret (talk) 17:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

There is a good resource – Handbook of Basic English. Alalch Emis (talk) 09:58, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
That is a good intro to Basic English for native speakers of English. I am suggesting a guide written in Simple English about these mistakes to allow people who can only understand Simple English to contribute. It would be unreasonable to expect someone to read that incredibly high-register prose from 80 years ago if they were at, say a B1 level of English.BobEret (talk) 12:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, I read your post in a rather strange and convoluted way (thinking you are referring to average English speakers making mistakes when trying to write Simple English sentences). Alalch Emis (talk) 12:30, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
We really should have a category for ideas no-one has ever had before... What we might need is an appreciation of how we get all the young people who are so ruthlessly (but justifiably) prevented from editing on En wiki. Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:18, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
This sounds like a toxic cynical remark! Macdonald-ross you should consider to delete it. Zblace (talk) 13:54, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

History of Arabia

I just created the article History of Arabia. I would greatly appreciate if anyone could help make it better in grammar, content, or simplicity. I will expand it later. Thanks! Naddruf (talk) 18:39, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

I think we should first think about the topic as something to be added to an existing page. We already have two pages:
There is the relatively short Arabian Peninsula page.
There is the History of Islam page.
I would suggest that as we have two pages, one of which is primarily geographic and another as primarily religious, then maybe we do not need a third. We do need both to be expanded, especially the Arabian Peninsula page. I am certainly open to helping advance the geographic page.

Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:00, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

It depends on how long the Arabian peninsula page is supposed to be. If the article gets 5 times longer would that be too much history there? Naddruf (talk) 15:34, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Well, my first thought is that the history of Arabia is much broader than the history of the Arab people. Maybe have a think about that. Macdonald-ross (talk) 19:22, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
At the moment (2021), there are about a dozen countries on the Arabian peninsula; while most of these territories may have a long history of being settled, the countries on the territories are "fairly recent" (20th century, perhaps 19th century). Judaism, Christianity and Islam (and perhaps other, smaller religions) originated in the area. So, my first question would be: Is there such a historical entity as the Arabian peninsula, and do the countries have a common history? - Or are we looking at a history of Iraq which is totally different, and totally unaffected by the history of say, Oman or Yemen? - supposing there is such as concept as the "Arabian peninsula", would the idea not be, to start extending, eg. the Yemen article? - Once the history section takes up more than a third to half the article, summarizer, and create a History of Yemen page. Once you have that for 3-4 of the countries on the peninsula, you can merge them together, to create a "History of Arabia" page. To my knowledge, Egyptians also see themselves as "Arabic", and they are not on the peninsula. And if you think that it is religion (most likely:Islam) uniting these countries, then you should start extending the history of Islam page. These are of course just thoughts...--Eptalon (talk) 23:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, there are definitely books written about the history of the Arabian peninsula, including the one I cited. There is a pretty clear unity of culture, although there are some things different about the different parts. In this way, it's kind of like India, (which historically includes Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nepal) in that it's a traditional region that has not always been unified. There are terms for part of the region like en:Hejaz, en:Najd, en:South Arabia and en:East Arabia, which don't coincide with modern countries, and Arabia as a whole was inhabited by Arabs before the age of Muhammad. I'm planning to add more about en:Pre-Islamic Arabia, so I don't think it can really go into History of Islam. There is a difference between the Arab world and the smaller region of Arabia, which primarily consists of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, and I'm not sure about Kuwait, southern Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, and Syria. Anyway, Egypt would not be included although there are Arabs who live there, and Israel is part of the Middle East but not really Arabia. As for your suggestions about merging, I could combine part of it into the Arabia article if it's better that way. How long do you think the article should be before it would be better to split? Alternatively it could be changed to history of the Middle East, but that would be much broader in scope.Naddruf (talk) 00:51, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Have a look at Liberia, and its talk page; there was a very similar discussion. As it turns out, the Liberia article is about 8k in size, the article History of Liberia is about 2k. Suppose you take the article Arabian peninsula: A few sententeces lede/intro, rest probably split equally between history and geography. Meaning: once the history gets bigger than about a third of the article, it is moved to its own article, summarized, and linked, much as was done in the Liberia article. --Eptalon (talk) 15:48, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Taxonomy template tribulations

I was cleaning up the uncategorized article Clione and started creating templates to connect this genus to the already-logged subclass Heterobranchia. I created templates for the genus Template:Taxonomy/Clione, the family Template:Taxonomy/Clionidae and superfamily Template:Taxonomy/Clionoidea I keep getting "Lua error in Module:Autotaxobox at line 225: attempt to index a nil value." Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:11, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I tried to fix but was unable to fix, I tried to update our local version of the Module but it's the latest, hope someone can help. Thanks Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 12:04, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
I fixed it. You had some information filled out wrong in Template:Taxonomy/Clionoidea. I believe it was because you had superfamily instead of superfamilia. -Djsasso (talk) 13:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks DJS. And thanks CM; good to know it wasn't just me. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:21, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, and I am frustrated with myself for not seeing the fix is such a simple one. I am thinking it will take many many steps. Thanks DJ too. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Amazon (company)

fixed. Misplaced }} in the text. --Gordonrox24 | Talk 03:21, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
It took me lots of tries, and I failed. Thanks for fixing! --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 03:22, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Always look for }} or {{ in the middle of a wall of text. So if you see "|something |something}} |something |something"
Chances are that }} is in the wrong spot, because the template is trying to continue on after it is supposed to have ended. If that makes sense.--Gordonrox24 | Talk 03:27, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Maintenance request for Twinkle

Per this, is it possible to prevent the A QD options (i.e. A1 to A6) to appear in TW QD menu if the namespace is not article. Now it appears in article/article talk. This will allow better QD tagging in my humble opinion. Thanks.Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 17:17, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Square in article history pages

What are the boxes after the two circles? I can't see any explanation for what the square does.Kdammers (talk) 07:33, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

It is to select specific edits. Admins for example use it to pick specific edits to delete. -Djsasso (talk) 16:30, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
There should be an explanation.Kdammers (talk) 07:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

Is there a page to report a potential sockpuppet instead of just throwing the suspected sockpuppet template on their user page when I'm not 100% sure? --Hellothere4 (talk) 16:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

@Hellothere4: The WP:RFCU page is for reporting socks to CheckUsers. Usually the tags should not be put there unless the user has been blocked already. --IWI (talk) 16:52, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Ok thanks I will use that. --Hellothere4 (talk) 16:53, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Policy on References

I have a question. What if there is an article here on simple and all references are written in Ukraine. How is that handled?

Here is the article.

Thanks - --PotsdamLamb (talk) 17:44, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

References written in Ukrainian are still references, and can still be used in an article, I believe. --Belwine (talk) 17:46, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
@Belwine@PotsdamLamb The so called guiding policy is here en:Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English_sources. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 17:53, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks CM! One of the reasons I asked is because there are numerous refs to a in Ukraine and I do not know if they are even valid and not a POV or anything. PotsdamLamb (talk) 17:58, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
@PotsdamLamb For that based on these discussion on enwp, there is a consensus that the site is a en:WP:BLOG and en:WP:SPS. Hence, I will incline to think it as not reliable. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 18:03, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Ok that was my thinking. I left the author a note on their page about it. Thanks again - PotsdamLamb (talk) 18:14, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
No problem, glad to be able to help. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 18:30, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-07

17:55, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


So as I am going through fixing articles, some I have tagged as needing more references because they only rely on one source. This has auto-created a red link titled "Category:Articles needing additional references from February 2021"

How should I handle this? Should I create a cat, a sub cat?

Thanks, PotsdamLamb (talk) 19:09, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Create the category and add {{MonthlyCleanupCat}}. --Belwine (talk) 19:11, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
@Belwine: - Can you help me with what I should do now? I have the page created, but it doesn't show up in the main cat so I think I missed something. Please don't do it for me, but try to walk me through it so I can learn. Here is the [[Category:Articles_needing_additional_references_from_February_2021]]. Thanks PotsdamLamb (talk) 19:45, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the issue is. What's the main category - the Category:Counter categories? Belwine (talk) 19:49, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
It is not on the monthly list but looks like it ended up in a different place? Is that the correct place? PotsdamLamb (talk) 19:55, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Ah, I think you need to use {{MonthlyCleanupCat}} instead of {{Counter category}}. Thanks, Belwine (talk) 19:59, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Haha - Got it! Now it looks right :) PotsdamLamb (talk) 20:08, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Feminism & Folklore 1 February - 31 March

Please help translate to your language


You are invited to participate in Feminism and Folklore writing contest. This year Feminism and Folklore will focus on feminism, women's biographies and gender-focused topics for the project in league with Wiki Loves Folklore gender gap focus with folk culture theme on Wikipedia. folk activities, folk games, folk cuisine, folk wear, fairy tales, folk plays, folk arts, folk religion, mythology, etc.

You can help us in enriching the folklore documentation on Wikipedia from your region by creating or improving articles centered on folklore around the world, including, but not limited to folk festivals, folk dances, folk music, women and queer personalities in folklore, folk culture (folk artists, folk dancers, folk singers, folk musicians, folk game athletes, women in mythology, women warriors in folklore, witches and witch-hunting, fairy tales and more. You can contribute to new articles or translate from the list of suggested articles here.

You can also support us in translating the project page and help us spread the word in your native language.

Learn more about the contest and prizes from our project page. Thank you.

Feminism and Folklore team,

Joy Agyepong (talk) 02:40, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

FR Yugoslavia national football team

Hello. Yesterday, an IP editor made FR Yugoslavia national football team. I tried to redirect it to Serbia and Montenegro national football team, but the IP who made the page reverted it twice. I tried to solve the situation by asking on one of the talk pages, where I got no reply. I want to know other peoples opinion on if we should redirect or not.

Note that all 3 IPs that have edited the page are blocked on enwiki as part of a school block, with one being previously blocked for disruptive editing. ShadowBallX (talk) 16:18, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Redirected and blocked. -Djsasso (talk) 16:28, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Simple English

I have two questions.

1) Why are some words which are not proper nouns capitalized in the list of basic English? These include 'purr,'* 'college' and 'embassy' as well academic subjects like 'chemistry.'

2) The notice on a page of someone (presumably "anyone" rather than"someone") who has recently died reads in part "a person who died a short time ago." This does not seem like simple English to me. It has a relative clause, a use of 'short' that might not be clear, and what probably looks like an extra adjective ('ago') stuck on at the end. which not the common location for adjectives in English. Why don't we use 'recently'? That would reduce some of the complexity. It ranks 638 on the New General Service List (

  • As a side issue, I don't know why 'purr' is on the list but 'growl' and a dog's 'bark' are not -- but that issue probably extends beyond Simple English's purview.

Kdammers (talk) 02:53, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

The entire list you are referencing comes directly from a very well known source done by the researcher Ogden. You would have to read their research for answers to your questions regarding what is on the list etc. Looking at the source they are capitalized there so we capitalize here. -Djsasso (talk) 12:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
We are not bound by Ogden's lists. Their purpose was to show his ideas on a simplified English vocabulary. Because we have many young readers, and readers for whom English is not their native language, we try to write so they have a better chance of understanding. Doing that is not easy, and Ogden's ideas have their uses. Macdonald-ross (talk) 07:48, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-08

00:17, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Spider-man 3

So we just learned the name and release date for Marvel's Spider-Man 3. Here is the link. They also added a funny video to it. Does it warrant an article now or should we wait for a trailer? --Hellothere4 (talk) 21:37, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done - Has alreayd been created, and moved to new name. See Spider-Man: No Way HomeBelwine (talk) 21:40, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Category, do we have it?

Do we have a category for people who died of COVID-19, like Cody Anderson? Darkfrog24 (talk) 23:09, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Here:Category:Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic --Hellothere4 (talk) 23:23, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. I will implement it ASAP. Darkfrog24 (talk) 23:36, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

IP(s) Creating Articles

  • In the past there has been discussion on various IPs creating stub type articles. I am running to this similar behaviour here, and I am wondering if this IP is a bot. I don't want to associate this IP by saying 'this is likely X editor using them' just yet. I am just wondering if the Abuse Filter to stop X in Y stub creations can be put in place, as mentioned before, this action put strains in Patrollers, and I don't think having a one line article is helpful to begin with. --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 00:31, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
    It might be simpler to simply block the IPs as before. It is likely a bot. --IWI (talk) 07:18, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
    We know who it is as this was talked about here awhile back, and they are doing it slowly now as opposed to before when it was likely a bot. I am monitoring the situation. One liners are helpful and perfectly acceptable. Tsugaru you need to get out of the mindset that short articles are bad. -Djsasso (talk) 11:57, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
    Yeah, if they're doing them at a slower pace without the assistance of an unauthorised bot, then it is okay. I hadn't looked at the timeframes in depth. --IWI (talk) 12:05, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
    I notice that sometimes the articles are being created quite quickly (1-2 every minute), and sometimes they are created every now and then.
    I was thanked by another user for an edit I made to one of these articles so I am quite sure about who it is. —Belwine (talk) 12:08, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
    They are mostly creating one every 5 or so minutes now. Creating an article that is one sentence only takes seconds. Before they used to create 3 or 4 a minute. -Djsasso (talk)
     (change conflict) The point is whether they are creating on a mass automated scale, which doesn't seem to be the case now I am looking into it. As long as a page demonstrates some kind of significance past the A4 threshold (which all legally-recognised geographic places do), then it is fine. Of course, we would prefer a little more, but it is fine. --IWI (talk) 12:14, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
    Yep last time the issue was they were clearly using a bot. They even appear to have mostly fixed the bad grammar they used to use as well. So really our messaging to them last time appears to have worked but I am watching to see if that changes. (and I assume other admins are as well). -Djsasso (talk) 12:17, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi Djsasso, I'm sorry if my opinion on short articles made you angry. That was not the intention here, it was just my personal opinion, however I did mention about the abuse filter above I'm not saying it should go on right away, there needs to be a community consensus to do so, and I respect what ever the consensus is. I'm not saying to not create 1 liner articles, I just meant that they should not be created in many at once. I am really sorry If what I said seemed rude. On an unrelated note, I asked earlier on Auntof6's talkpage, about a way to move the 'mark this page as partolled' bar into a different menu, so I don't accidentally click on it when viewing a page. Is there a mod for this? --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 00:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Not angry at all, but I often see people complaining about short articles. And short stub articles are very important. I think what leads people to think this is that they compare our articles to articles. But most people weren't around in the early days of English Wikipedia. Their articles all mostly started the exact same way, but because they had many thousands of editors compared to our tiny numbers they moved past that point for most articles in a couple years. We on the other hand are going to be in the stage of having many short articles for many years, likely decades. Doing them fast is fine as long as they are not using automation to do it and they are not making a mess of the articles. And no there isn't a mod for moving the link that I am aware of. -Djsasso (talk) 11:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Good articles

So I was thinking about starting a good article and I was wondering if I would be allowed to copy over the info box and any other needed tables from it's en wiki page to save time or is that not allowed for good articles? --Hellothere4 (talk) 18:41, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes you can bring stuff like that over. -Djsasso (talk) 18:55, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Ok thank --Hellothere4 (talk) 18:56, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
Is attribution needed for this (infobox)? --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 01:10, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I thought attribution was always needed. --Hellothere4 (talk) 01:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I think too. I'm 99% sure it is needed, but I want to make sure for sure. --Tsugaru Let's Talk! :) 🍁 01:13, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Yeah an infobox would be past the threshold of originality as far as I can see. --IWI (talk) 01:15, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Depends what you mean. If you just mean copying the template to use to an article or creating the template itself. If you are creating the template then yes you should attribute. If you are just pasting the template onto the article then you would not have to (but it doesn't hurt to) because they are straight statements of fact. -Djsasso (talk) 11:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
A good way to attribute the source of content is in the Change summary. If you get in the habit of writing this before you hit "Page preview," then "Publish changes," you'll avoid skipping this step. Deborahjay (talk) 14:47, 26 February 2021 (UTC)


Will I get in trouble for changing a redirect to a standalone? --Dingothegorg 16:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

@Dingothegorg: What is the redirect you are planning on changing? —Belwine (talk) 16:14, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
@Belwine: I was gonna plan on making the Conure page standalone from the Parakeet page --Dingothegorg 18:08, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Yeah that would be perfectly fine. -Djsasso (talk) 18:35, 26 February 2021 (UTC)


Is there a way to see the most linked non-existent page? ShadowBallX (talk) 19:42, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Special:WantedPages --Hellothere4 (talk) 19:44, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. ShadowBallX (talk) 19:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Don't just go through creating redirects though if that is what you are thinking of doing. (noticed you did that on the first one). The red links help to get us to create articles, redirecting can hide the fact we need the article. Of course there are times when a redirect is warranted. I am just saying be careful if that was your intention. -Djsasso (talk) 19:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
The reason I created the redirect was because I thought that since it was a list of the topic, a redirect to the list would make sense. I don't have the intention of just creating redirects. ShadowBallX (talk) 20:03, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I figured as much, I have just seen it before where people do things like that just to clear one of the many special pages of things to do and I wanted to catch it before it started incase you did want to do something like that. -Djsasso (talk) 20:10, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

A question

How can i create a wikiproject?12345678910FruitTalk(My Changes) 20:12, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

@12345678910Fruit: Go to User:12345678910Fruit/Wikiproject X (X being the thing you want to create a Wikiproject about) and then create the page. —Belwine (talk) 20:14, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
@12345678910Fruit: Just note that we have some WikiProjects, but they are unofficial and they are maintained in userspace. Unlike WikiProjects at English Wikipedia:
  • We do not use categories for individual WikiProjects. There is Category:WikiProjects for the project pages and Category:WikiProject user templates for WikiProject user templates.
  • We do not use categories for WikiProject participants. Participants can be listed on individual project pages.
  • We do not use WikiProject banners on article talk pages.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask. --Auntof6 (talk) 20:31, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

A question about disambiguation pages

How can disambiguation pages be created?--12345678910FruitTalk(My Changes) 13:10, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

@12345678910Fruit: It's not much different from creating other articles. The things you need are (using "xyz" as a sample name):
  • A line at the top that says something like "Xyz might refer to:"
  • A list of articles whose subjects might be called "xyz"
  • At the bottom, {{disambiguation}}
You can always edit an existing disambiguation page to see an example, then just cancel out of the edit. --Auntof6 (talk) 15:02, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
Uses material from the Wikipedia article Wikipedia:Simple talk, released under the CC BY-SA 3.0 license.