Wikipedia:Featured article candidates

Icepinner

I will probably provide a full review soon. But a comment for now: the lead has citations. You technically can have citations in the lead per MOS:LEADCITE, but many editors prefer not to since the lead already summarises the content in the article. If the lead has citations for information not in the body, then such information should probably be mentioned in the body. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:41, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comment

User:Trappist the monk/HarvErrors.js says for Hansen 2022 that "Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFHansen2022.", which means that the source isn't actually being cited in the article. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 04:16, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Weird, I'm not sure why. I'll fix that in a second. NRP (talk) 04:39, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

@Icepinner: fixed. NRP (talk) 05:01, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

I'll continue from where I got to during the peer review. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 07:40, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

• "British singer Ed Sheeran and Bieber" suggest "Bieber and British singer Ed Sheeran" - Bieber is the subject of the article, it's kind of jarring when he doesn't go first (compare "Bieber and country music duo [...]"...). I guess you could disagree because it's a song from Sheeran's album, so I won't push this point.
  • I think it's best to put Sheeran first since it's a song from his album.
• The "YouTube Originals" link is broken - doesn't section link correctly - needs to point to the correct section (whatever that may be)
  • Done
• "It received mixed reviews from critics[187] and debuted at" suggest "It received mixed reviews from critics[187] but debuted at" - seems to be a contrasting viewpoint
  • Done
• "and debuted at number two on the Billboard Hot 100.[44] The second single, "Intentions", followed on February 7, which peaked at number five on the Billboard Hot 100.[189] American singer Ariana Grande and Bieber released the single "Stuck with U" on May 8, 2020, to help raise funds for the first responders of the COVID-19 pandemic. The song became Bieber's sixth number-one single on the Billboard Hot 100.[190]" - There are lots of instances where "Billboard Hot 100" is repeated so much that it becomes difficult to read, especially with the italics. Consider shortening to just "Hot 100" for instances where it's clear that it couldn't refer to anything else. This doesn't apply just in the quote I picked out, it's a thing that happens in lots of places throughout the article - I don't have the motivation to go through and list them all :(
  • I've removed them except for its first mention in a section and where it's close to the Canadian Hot 100.
• "Bieber released the third single, "Anyone"," suggest "Bieber released the third single from Changes, "Anyone"," - Changes was not the topic of the previous sentence
  • Done
• "while "Peaches" debuted atop the Billboard Hot 100" suggest changing "atop" to "on top of" and possibly changing BH100 as mentioned above
  • Done
• "To promote the album, Bieber later embarked on the Justice World Tour." - "Later" is not a descriptive time phrase. Can you clarify when it happened?
  • Done
• "with the Kid Laroi on "Stay" in July" - I don't like this repetitive preposition followed by proper noun construction. Suggest shuffling it around to avoid too much repetition.
  • Done
• "Bieber appeared on Kehlani's "Up at Night" in" - Kehlani's what? do you mean "Kehlani's single"?
  • Fixed
• "In September, it was announced that" - who/what announced?
  • Fixed

Will continue from #2023 later. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 15:35, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

• "Bieber sold his music publishing rights and recording catalogue shares, up to the end of 2021, to Hipgnosis Songs Fund" suggest "Bieber sold his music publishing rights and recording catalogue shares up to the end of 2021 to the Hipgnosis Songs Fund" - comma placement feels misleading, I don't know whether using "the" is correct but the name feels strange without it
  • Fixed
• "and starred in its music video as the latter's love interest" - I stumbled on "the latter" and it took me a few seconds to understand what this means. Any way of rewording to avoid using "the latter"?
  • Changed to "as her love interest", does that work?
    • Yes
• "with 163,000 equivalent album units earned in the US" - what are album units?
  • I removed "album" to avoid confusion, but units is a common enough term that I don't think it needs explanation
• "On September 4, Bieber announced his ninth studio album, Swag II, would be released the next day." - grammar?
  • Fixed
• "He was a headlining performer at Coachella 2026." - ...which is...? - suggest "at the music festival Coachella 2026 in California" or something similar - name-dropping is not good prose
  • Fixed
• "On the week dated May 9" - I don't know if that's the same thing as "On the week starting May 9", but if it is, I suggest that because it's a more common wording
  • Done
• #Artistry has a lot of quotes which should be trimmed/paraphrased per Wikipedia:Non-free content#Text - and even then, beware WP:CLOP. Here are a few:

  "create a new sound that people aren't really used to hearing ... like when Timberlake did FutureSex/LoveSounds: It was a new sound ... acoustic guitar over hard drums" (27 words)

  "offering a gentle introduction to the mysteries and heartaches of adolescence: songs flushed with romance but notably free of sex itself" (21 words)

  "I want to do it at my own pace. I don't want to start singing about things like sex, drugs and swearing. I'm into love, and maybe I'll get more into making love when I'm older. But I want to be someone who is respected by everybody" (47 words)

  "Bieber is not a powerhouse vocalist, but he is a compelling one, casually dropping in a stray yodel here, a Mariah Carey-indebted set of runs there. His voice has a palatable smoothness; he's mastered push-and-pull dynamics, and he swings effortlessly from a placid chest voice to a zephyr of a falsetto" (51 words)

  When I say "trimmed" I mean "reduced to 3 or 4 words" - I'm sure that's possible, especially for the last, just pick out a few words and summarise the rest. I remember writing that quotations are problem sometime previously, but hopefully this is a more useful description of the issue. --ncw

  • I've reduced almost all of these except the ones from Bieber, because I think the point of them would be lost if I did. Let me know if you think the other ones need further trimming.
    • I think it's good now.
• #Influences: If you're going to link names in the article body or in the image caption but not both, I suggest you do it in the article body, as that is what more people will read. (You can also link in both... it's your choice...)
  • Most of these are already linked in the body, in the life and career section. I can unlink them in the caption as well if you think it's necessary.
• "being aimed to a more teen pop and "bubblegum-ish" direction" - MOS:EGG, that link is about a musical genre not general bubblegum - I don't think this can be changed without paraphrasing the quotation
  • Removed the "bubblegum-ish" part altogether
• "Since then, he has gradually altered his artistry, with albums such as Purpose exploring more serious themes such as his life experiences." drop "gradually"? that's implied by "since then", IMO.
  • Done
• "Bieber's album Changes" suggest "His album Changes" - when a name and a title is introduced, it almost exclusively refers to someone who is not Bieber and something that is new (i.e. suggesting that Changes has not been mentioned before), but thankfully pronouns were created to make this less jarring. (This wasn't very clear when I initially wrote it. Here's a more comprehensible version: nobody else is mentioned in the paragraph, restating his name is distracting and could make the reader believe something new / a collaboration is about to be talked about, since Bieber's name is set apart from the rest of the paragraph.)
  • Done
• I think that the article is long enough that you can link the album names again in #Artistry (a lot of them were linked many paragraphs above, and this is a new major section)
  • Sure
• "has been met with both criticism and discourse." why?
  • I wish I could add more to this, but the source doesn't elaborate. It says, Bieber’s integration of traditionally Black musical traditions (R&B; hip hop; soul) within a broader pop aesthetic has been both controversial and bound up with a range of discourses related to, for example, age, gender, and musical ability
• "were both signed at the same age, "[He] had the" suggest "were both signed at the same age, "[he] had the"
  • Done
• "very influenced by black culture" - I don't know whether capital B or lowercase b is the correct letter for (B|b)lack, but it's inconsistent - need to make it consistent
  • All are consistently capitalized now
• There are more overly long quotations here. The worst ones are:

  "Though a product of a middle-class suburban upbringing in Stratford, Ontario, Bieber's manner of dress and speech ('Wassup man, how you doin'?' or 'It's like, you know, whateva') suggest he's mimicking his favorite rappers" (34 words)

  "In order to maintain order in the Chinese market and purify the Chinese performance environment, it is not suitable to bring in badly behaved entertainers" (25 words)

  Others could do with a trim, but aren't too bad. --ncw

  • Trimmed both of these
• "In 2010, he was frequently criticized for looking and sounding younger than his age." - I don't understand how this is valid criticism that Wikipedia should cover. Doesn't every famous person want to look younger? I think this statement needs elaborating as a minimum.
  • Removed
• "received attention in particular" - in what way? positive or negative or both"?
  • Actually, I removed this part altogether; mentioning every popular hairstyle he's had doesn't seem necessary to me
• "and the media attention he receives have additionally been criticized" suggest "also" instead of "additionally" - less wordy
  • Done
• "Bieber's adoration from teenage girls" - I feel like that's a very weighted/POVy statement to make. Not all teenage girls are Bieber fans. Surely not all Bieber fans are teenage girls. A way of expressing a limit e.g. "some teenage girls" could be useful.
  • Fixed
• "Bieber reinvented his image multiple times and in 2012, he changed his hairstyle to resemble more of a pompadour which resembled and drew connections to Presley" - comma placement is a bit strange - shouldn't it go before "and in 2012" instead of after? - also suggest linking Pompadour (hairstyle) unless it;s been linked already
  • Fixed both
• "2014, Bieber adopted the pseudonym "Bizzle"" - drop the quotes here, MOS:SCAREQUOTE
  • Done, though I'm not sure if this is a scare quote
    • I probably didn't explain enough. Bizzle is a name, so the quotation marks don't mark an actual quotation. The MOS states: "Quotation marks, when not marking an actual quotation,[d] may be interpreted as "scare quotes"." i.e., it could imply that the name is invalid. Maybe you were looking for MOS:WAW, but I think that would still be condescending, so it's probably best to treat Bizzle as a normal word.
• I think you should swap the places of the Beliebers and waxwork images, so that they're closer to where they're mentioned in the article.
  • Done
• You mention Twitter then mention it again as "Twitter (now X)". I'm not sure that's necessary, a link would suffice, but if you think it's necessary the parentheses should be at the first mention.
  • Linked it on its first mention and removed "(now X)"
• "and was ordered to appear in Argentina within 60 days by a Buenos Aires court to give testimony on an alleged assault on a photographer on November 9, 2013." - full date probably not needed, it's very understandable with only the year. The other two examples before this phrase only included the year.
  • Done
• "driving with a licence expired by over than six months" suggest "driving with a licence expired by more than six months"
  • Done

I'm growing somewhat tired of reviewing this article so I will stop here unless I have a mad burst of energy. From what I've seen, I don't feel like the prose here is quite at FAC level just yet, but hopefully you can apply some of these comments to the rest of the article as well. The other major issue I see is length. There are some bits that could be condensed (e.g. instead of naming every unimportant non-charting single in #Life and career, you could list the people he's collaborated with in another section, perhaps #Artistry). However, that woud hardly make a dent in the count of 9,000 words. I understand that you've reduced the article word count by 3,000, but even though it's now under the general limit of 10,000, the information is still so dense that it feels like more. I know that this comment is vague and somewhat unhelpful, but maybe you can see what I'm getting at? Anyways, please ping me once you've replied to everything, or if you have any questions. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 23:15, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

@Not-cheesewhisk3rs: thanks for the review. I've implemented all of your comments unless stated otherwise. I do know what you mean, and I'll work on removing more of the less notable singles. NRP (talk) 03:32, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

OK, let me know when you're done. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 08:52, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

@Not-cheesewhisk3rs: Okay, 750h+ helped out with removing quite a few, and I removed some too. NRP (talk) 18:57, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

I think it's much better now. The length, proseline and quotations have been addressed to a level that I'm happy with. Maybe I'll drop some more comments in a few days (there's only a few sections left, after all) but until then you have my support. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 20:42, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

P.S. I listened to a Justin Bieber song for the first time while reviewing this article. It was better than I expected (considering that I wasn't expecting anything substantial). --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 23:15, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Where have you been for the past 16 years if this is your first time listening to a JB song xD /j UltraCobson (talk) 23:56, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Here and there. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester) 01:12, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

EG

I hope to leave comments in a bit. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:15, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

A few quick comments before I do a full review later, but:

• Lead, para 4: "He was the recipient of the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal in 2012." - Was this for his music or something else? It seems strange not to mention this with his other accolades.
  • None of the sources I could find give the specific reason why he was awarded it, outside of "a significant contribution to a particular province, territory, region or community within Canada, or an achievement abroad that brings credit to Canada"
• 1994–2006: Early life: The first sentence of the second paragraph feels like it would fit better with the first paragraph instead.
  • Done
• 1994–2006: Early life. para 2: "Bieber attended two French-language immersion elementary schools in Stratford: Jeanne Sauvé Catholic School and Bedford Public School. In grades 7 and 8, he attended Stratford Northwestern Secondary School. He then attended St. Michael Catholic Secondary School, graduating in 2012 with a 4.0 GPA. Growing up, Bieber learned to play the drums and piano; his mother bought his first drum set when he was four and his first guitar when he was six. He performed in church benefits at age eight." - This feels a bit disjointed. It might be because you're trying to separate out his introduction to music and his education, but I feel like if these happened concurrently, it may be better to reorganize this section chronologically.
  • I see what you mean. I've organized it chronologically now.
• 1994–2006: Early life: The header seems like it should be renamed, since it also includes his graduation in 2012 (after he had already become famous). How about "Early life and education"?
  • Actually, I just removed the timeline from the header, similar to Taylor Swift and Beyoncé

– Epicgenius (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Looking forward to the rest of your review! NRP (talk) 20:31, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'm busy this weekend but will leave further comments next week, no later than Tuesday. Accessedgrant (Epicgenius mobile alt) (talk) 03:42, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Source spot-check

Per talk page request. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 03:37, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

This table lists 20 random passages from throughout the article (4.9% of 405 total passages). These passages contain 24 inline citations (5.0% of 476 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 03:37, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Image review

Staking out a placeholder for now, will have something more substantial here soon. Congratulations on coming this far with an article on such an important cultural figure! Dylan620 (please ping • talk • edits) 12:20, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Image check by Shocksingularity

• File:Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro cover art.jpg
  • Valid license or fair-use rationale? Yes (fair use)
  • Alt text? Yes
  • Caption? Yes
• File:Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro gameplay.png
  • Valid license or fair-use rationale? Yes (fair use)
  • Alt text? Yes
  • Caption? Yes
• File:Sega-Saturn-JP-Mk1-Console-Set.jpg
  • Valid license or fair-use rationale? Yes (PD)
  • Alt text? Yes
  • Caption? Yes
• File:Namie Amuro MAA (cropped).JPG
  • Valid license or fair-use rationale? Yes (CC BY 2.5)
  • Alt text? Yes
  • Caption? Yes

Image check result: PASS

Shocksingularity (talk) 03:01, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

Review Support by Shocksingularity

• Development was led by veteran producer and game designer Yu Suzuki. What does "veteran" mean in this context? I know the definition is that he is experienced, but explain how. It doesn't have to be in the lead but I'd put it somewhere in the article.

This refers to Suzuki having previously worked on many other games at Sega including Out Run and the Virtua Fighter series. I've now made a brief mention of this in development. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• ...which was one of the most detailed and technically advanced models created for a Saturn title. I would re-specify that this is Sega Saturn because for a second I thought this was talking about the planet. The other mention in the paragraph is fine.

 Done MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro was developed by Sega AM2. I would specify that Sega AM2 is a development team and not, for instance, another console.

 Done MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• ...which featured still images of 3D modeled characters. The developers wanted to create a more interactive title that would allow players to adjust the camera. I'm not sure I understand the contrast between these two things. Did the still images not fully render the 3D character and only the parts facing towards the "camera"? I would also note that in this game, videos of 3D modelled characters, rather than just images, are included.

The difference is that the CG Portrait games only used pre-rendered models and graphics, whereas Digital Dance Mix renders everything in real time. I've added wording to clarify. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Suzuki further described it as music software that was "a step forward" from traditional CDs and DVDs. This is a bit confusing to me because the previous sentences are on the visual graphics rather than the music. Also, is this game on a CD/DVD or some other kind of disk?

The game is in CD-ROM format, as are all Sega Saturn games, but that's not important here. Suzuki is talking about how an interactive video game would be a new way to experience music compared to listening to an album on CD or watching a music video on a DVD. I've added a bit more of what he said about this. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• A new implementation of the TrueMotion compression codec was used to render the video. A basic overview of what TrueMotion compression codec is and why it made the rendering better would be useful.

I added some context for Sega's use of TrueMotion with another source. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• and publications generally viewed it as a curiosity that was unlikely to be localized internationally. "Localized internationally" is a bit of an oxymoron, perhaps "played internationally" would be better here?

I changed it to "sold internationally", which is in line with the sources discussing the lack of an overseas release. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Game Players characterized it as part of a new wave of "twisted" Japanese music games alongside PaRappa the Rapper (1996)... What does "twisted" mean in this context?

That's the exact word the magazine used to describe them, but a single-word quote is probably not necessary here. I'll strike it. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• In terms of the Reception section, you mention that Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro was not considered a commercial success and then give stats about its sales, and even mentioned that it plac[ed] number 2 in the Famitsu Top 30 for week 2 in 1997. Could you explain why these stats are considered bad? You could possibly do this by comparing the sales stats to another, more popular game released by Sega or mentioning if the company lost money on the game.

Partially implemented 116,000 copies is much lower than Sega's flagship games on the console (see List of best-selling Sega Saturn games) but I don't have a better source specifically comparing sales other than the table I've already cited. I will see if I can find something else. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Hayashimura ultimately called it "an experiment that should really be conducted on a desk". What does this mean?

He is essentially calling it an experimental title that should have stayed as such. I decided to just strike this instead of attempting to literally translate the Japanese wording. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• In an unscored review... What is an unscored review?

This simply means that the reviewers did not use a point system (such as 1-10) to assign a rating to the game. Now that you point it out, I think it's not really an important detail here. Removed. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:10, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

I know I left a lot of comments, but overall, I think this is definitely a high-quality article deserving of FA! Most of my comments were minor nitpicks that can be fixed pretty easily and I had literally 0 notes on the "Gameplay" section. If you make the small changes I mentioned, I'd be happy to support its promotion to featured status. Good luck and good job with your first FAC! :) Shocksingularity (talk) 23:41, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

Hi, thank you so much for your comments! I've made an effort to address each one. Let me know what you think. MidnightMayhem (talk) 09:11, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Nice job! It looks much better now :) Updating my vote to support. Shocksingularity (talk) 18:50, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Fathoms Below

Forthcoming Fathoms Below (talk) 23:10, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

RedShellMomentum

Will do. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 20:06, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

@Fathoms Below: Both images in the article need alt text + problem with the source spot-check below. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 20:18, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

@Fathoms Below: Image review and source spot-check passed, happy to support now. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 20:59, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

Carloseow

First time reading the article. Maybe the lead could be more direct, such as: "Shovel Knight: King of Cards is a 2019 video game expansion for the 2014 platform game Shovel Knight. The expansion was developed and published by Yacht Club Games as downloadable content (DLC)." This identifies the subject as a video game expansion from the outset, avoids possible confusion with a physical card game, and clarifies that the developer and publisher refer to the expansion rather than the base game. Just a thought, of course. Carloseow (talk) 11:33, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

@Fathoms Below Carloseow (talk) 11:38, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment! I formatted the lead based on those for other DLC articles such as Fallout 4: Far Harbor and Splatoon 3: Side Order. The wikilink to downloadable content clarifies that it is meant to be a video game expansion and not a card expansion, as downloadable content is the formal term for this. I did change it to clarify that Yacht Club Games developed the expansion though and not just the base game. Fathoms Below (talk) 16:07, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

@. Fathoms Below The mention of Specter of Torment in the plot section may require a source if it is not mentioned in the game itself, per MOS:VGPLOT. Otherwise, it could be removed if no source supports it. Carloseow (talk) 22:54, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

It is pretty explicitly shown in a pre-credits closing cutscene, but I also included a source from Nintendo Life that also explicitly shows this. Fathoms Below (talk) 22:59, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

MidnightMayhem

I played this expansion back when it released in 2019 and remember thinking it was pretty fun. Overall the article looks great! Just a few minor things that stood out, mostly regarding prose:

• In gameplay - use of "players" or "the player" should be unified for consistency.

Changed to "player" as it is not a multiplayer game

• Is there a reason why Specter of Torment is wikilinked in plot but Shovel Knight is not?

I added a link to Shovel Knight in the preceding section, and adding another one so soon seems excessive

• "The new world map was influenced by Super Mario World and has the main progression routes marked by green paths, while hidden levels are marked by red paths. This was influenced by Mario's use of the color to indicate secret areas" - using "influenced" twice in consecutive sentences is a little repetitive, could this be rephrased?

Changed to "derived from"

• "Yacht Club Games allowed for enemies to drop health power ups for every three hits they received" - As described in the source, I think it should be specified that only large enemies drop hearts, not every enemy in the game.

Done

• "The developers added ways for the player to cheat at Joustus to align with King Knight's characterization as an evil protagonist" - I'm not sure this wording is appropriate, is he really evil? He's a villain, sure, but the source says they added it "since it seemed like King Knight would be a cheater", which is a bit softer.

Yeah he's effectively evil, and that's how I paraphrased it. Though I could just remove that part and say that it "align with King Knight's characterization"

• "They teased (Joustus's) inclusion in Specter of Torment, and drew inspiration from existing card games such as Hive and Triple Triad from Final Fantasy VIII, as well as trading-card games like Magic: The Gathering" - I'm not familiar with Hive but the wording here made it seem like it was part of Final Fantasy VIII. Could this be adjusted to avoid potential confusion? Either reword or maybe a simple comma instead of "and".

I rephrased it. How does that look?

• I might split the last sentences in development about the game's release from the last paragraph, as this is mostly talking about Joustus.

Done

Would be happy to support with these few improvements. I also have a nomination open for Digital Dance Mix Vol. 1 Namie Amuro; feel free to comment if you'd like. Good luck! MidnightMayhem (talk) 21:30, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Thank you MidnightMayhem, I left some responses above, and I'll be sure to take a look at your FAC! Fathoms Below (talk) 23:25, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

RedShellMomentum

Will do. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 03:47, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

@Carloseow: Image review passed, but there's a problem with the spot check below. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 04:11, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• @Carloseow: I don't have the time to do a full review, but I have made a couple of revisions to the prose. I see that it has taken a long time to get the article to this stage. Good luck with your first nomination. MSincccc (talk) 16:59, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

Comments from Fathoms Below

Comments forthcoming. I also have a FAC open here, and you can comment there if you find my feedback helpful. No worries if you aren't interested though Fathoms Below (talk) 20:06, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

• "Sokoban takes place in a warehouse viewed from above and composed of walls and floor squares" I think you should use the term "top-down perspective" here since you use that terminology in the lead, and it is consistent with other video game FAs such as Katana Zero saying that it is from a side-scrolling perspective
• "Some floor squares are storage locations. The number of storage locations equals the number of boxes." You can combine both sentences by saying "...and the number of storage locations equals the number of boxes"
• I think you should place the term "deadlock" in quotations.
• "he implemented that movement as a puzzle using BASIC in spring" spring of that year? If so you should refer to it as "the spring" since it is a specific instance of that season (that being the 1981 spring)
• You should wikilink to the term "text-based graphics" since I was unfamiliar with it. I think the intended destination is ASCII art?
• Can you explain a bit of the role of radiation in Aldebaran? So do players want to block radiation or reroute it? You could also just remove the whole thing about radiation and just say "in which luggage was used as an obstacle"
• "That winter, his wife's parents owned a record store, and there was talk of setting up a small computer section in it; at the time, a salesman who happened to see the game suggested to Imabayashi that it had commercial potential" That phrasing is also a bit odd. How about: "Imabayashi’s parents-in-law owned a record store, and there was talk of setting up a computer section. Around that winter, a salesman saw Imbayashi's game and suggested that it had commercial potential."
• "using an NEC PC-8801 in the computer section, he decided on the design, enhanced the graphics, and expanded the level count to twenty." Change to "he completed the design".
• Is there any published reason why Thinking Rabbit became inactive as a company? I'm guessing that you were unable to find a reason why but I just wanted to make sure.
• "Notably, Falcon bundled four of these Windows titles into the Sokoban Complete Pack (倉庫番 コンプリートパック) (2016) to commemorate the series' 35th anniversary." You don’t need to use “Notably”
• "however, certain official releases have expanded the rules or introduced variations on the core mechanics" You should link "mechanics" to the game mechanics article.
• "...and either area randomly rotates during the match" Does only one of the areas rotate or do they both randomly rotate? It seems unfair if only one of the two players has to contend with a rotating room.

More comments forthcoming Fathoms Below (talk) 21:00, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

• You can wikilink Chukyo Television Broadcasting
• "craze among office workers through its electronic-organizer versions" Was this craze in 1997? Or was it some time earlier? Also, is this a high-quality source considering that it is an advertisement for an entry in the Sokoban series? It doesn't seem sufficiently independent from the subject (the franchise itself) so I would have this whole sentence removed to comply with WP:FACR
• "Reviewers often emphasized the game's addictive nature" you can remove "often" to make the prose tighter while still getting the meaning across.
• "In its console reviews" I think this is automatically assumed since the reviewer is reviewing the Game Boy version, so you could remove this part.
• "Commentators often highlighted one or more aspects of the game: its simplicity, the depth of thought it required of players, or its challenging nature" How about "Commentators often highlighted the game’s simplicity, the depth of thought it required of players, or its challenging nature"
• "Micomgames staff described the first Sokoban title as simple yet requiring…" You can also remove "title"
• "It stated that while the game appears simple, the boxes are "cleverly" arranged; some levels require moving other boxes for twenty moves just to shift a single target box one space" You have some scare quotes here and in other parts of the article that could easily be paraphrased as pure prose. Quotations should generally be used for a sentence or longer, and anything less than that tends to disrupt the prose.
• "wrote that Sokoban was "incredibly simple" yet "fun", and Satoru Sato of ASCII wrote that, despite its visual simplicity, it was "outstandingly fun" You use the word "fun" for two sentences in a row. You can use some prose variation by replacing the scare quote "outstandingly fun" by just saying: "despite its visual simplicity, it was very entertaining"
• "cited Sokoban as the representative example of a purely logic-based puzzle, distinguishing it from puzzles that incorporate action elements such as enemies or time pressure, and those involving elements of chance" how about "cited Sokoban as an example of a purely logic-based puzzle, distinguishing it from puzzles that incorporate action-based gameplay or elements of chance"
• "Family Computer Magazine's All Catalog supplement described Sokoban for Game Boy as great due to the simplicity of its gameplay  and Computer and Video Games magazine staff described it as one of the Game Boy's "simple but effective puzzle games"." You use the word described twice in both sentences, can you replace one of the uses with a synonym such as "called"?
• "Reviewers for the German magazine Happy Computer…" this sentence is a run-on that should have a period after the word "box"
• "The series faced occasional criticism for a lack of variety. Tom R. Halfhill…" since this is the second use of his name, you can just refer to him by his surname.
• "It sparked a "puzzle game boom" in the Japanese personal computer market starting in 1983 and continuing for a time." Is there an effective date for how long this boom lasted?
• I'm straying away from the Research section due to my limited technical knowledge

That's what came up for the prose review Fathoms Below (talk) 03:43, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

I see that you're making some changes, but can you make a direct response to each of my individual comments (as seen in other FACs?) This is to make sure that I have an explanation for everything you changed and which you didn't change and so that I and the FAC Coordinators don't have to search around in the page history. Fathoms Below (talk) 20:50, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, @Fathoms Below. There were quite a lot of points, and I was preparing my responses. Here are my responses:

> "Sokoban takes place in a warehouse viewed from above and composed of walls and floor squares"

I preferred not to use exactly the same wording in the lead and the body text, since the lead is intended to summarize the article.

> You can combine both sentences by saying "...and the number of storage locations equals the number of boxes"

I kept them as two sentences to make the explanation easier for newcomers to understand.

> If so you should refer to it as "the spring" since it is a specific instance of that season (that being the 1981 spring)

Good point. I updated it. I also use "the autumn" in the paragraph.

> You should wikilink to the term "text-based graphics" since I was unfamiliar with it. I think the intended destination is ASCII art?

I linked it to text mode. Alternatively, would it be better to link to an image of the PC-8001 character set?

> Can you explain a bit of the role of radiation in Aldebaran? So do players want to block radiation or reroute it? You could also just remove the whole thing about radiation and just say "in which luggage was used as an obstacle"

This was the term used by Imabayashi. I read the Aldebaran '80 article (translated from Japanese), and it seems that the game was more about biological contamination caused by the bacteriophage ALD7. The Beta-II robot rescued researchers, and the gameplay also involved placing blocks. Closing the laboratory entrances to prevent the contamination from spreading is something I observed in the game. I removed the mention of radiation, as you suggested.

The MZ-700 version of the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIxg9MhttOE&t=206s

> "That winter,..." That phrasing is also a bit odd

I made another update:

"That winter,[9] his wife's parents owned a record store, and there was talk of setting up a small computer section in it. Around the time this came up, a salesman happened to see Sokoban and suggested to Imabayashi that it had commercial potential."

The summary is based on two sources, whose professional translations appeared in very old versions of the article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sokoban&oldid=1323841066#cite_note-5

However, that version omits the stations. The full reference is: https://sokoban.jp/greeting.html

The other source is a magazine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sokoban&oldid=1323841066#cite_note-6

The summary tries to reflect the ambiguity in the sources without introducing a misleading implication. I also clarified this with a professional translator: the source does not say where the salesman saw the game. We can assume it was in the store, but the source does not establish that. Only the time references are clear.

The expression "Around the time this came up" is the best wording I could find to summarize the source accurately. Note that the magazine translation says:

----

"There was talk of setting up a computer section in my wife's parents' record shop nearby. I wasn't directly involved, but at that time, someone saw "Sokoban." and told me, 'This will sell!'"

----

One expression I considered was "At that time", but it could be read as referring to the winter mentioned in the preceding paragraph. Saying "Around that time" would be less precise, since the source says "at that time".

> Change to "he completed the design".

I used "he decided on the design" for two reasons. First, the source says "デザインを決め" (decided on the design). Second, I wanted to avoid suggesting that *Sokoban* (1981) was a work in progress or a prototype that was redefined for its first commercial release.

In ''Sokoban'' (1982/1983), levels 11–20 introduced variable rules that were never introduced again in any other ''Sokoban'' game. Thus, the design decision referred to the particular commercial version or product.

> Is there any published reason why Thinking Rabbit became inactive as a company?

I don't know the reason, and I haven't found any source that clarifies it. However, the relationship with Falcon seems to have been close since 1988. They trademarked the game's kanji name, "倉庫番", in 1988. Falcon is also listed in the credits of the PC-9801 version of *Sokoban Perfect* (1989), on page 13 of the manual:

----

Presented by Soft Office Thinking Rabbit

Produced by Hiroyuki Imabayashi, Hideji Tanaka

Programmed by Masaharu Kiyomizu, Masahiro Kataoka, Shigeaki Koike, Falcon Inc.

Graphics by Midori Wada

Music by Kenzo Kumei, Micro Cabin Inc.

Designed by Hitomi Kamasu

[more credits]

----

> You don’t need to use “Notably”

Removed.

> You should link "mechanics" to the game mechanics article.

Done.

> "...and either area randomly rotates during the match" Does only one of the areas rotate or do they both randomly rotate? It seems unfair if only one of the two players has to contend with a rotating room.

Good catch. Yes, the summary was wrong. I changed it to: "Each player's area is displayed on a different side of the screen, and the areas randomly rotate during the match."

The Japanese source says 「相手側か自分側がランダムに回転する」 (the opponent's side or one's own side randomly rotates). I found it challenging to find a concise English expression that conveys this without introducing ambiguity. "Either player's area" sounds as though only one area rotates, while "the areas randomly rotate" leaves it unclear whether they rotate simultaneously or independently. The wording "Each player's area is displayed on a different side of the screen, and the areas randomly rotate during the match" is clearer about what rotates, but unfortunately loses a distinction that is clear in Japanese.

> You can wikilink Chukyo Television Broadcasting

Done.

> "craze among office workers through its electronic-organizer versions" Was this craze in 1997? Or was it some time earlier? Also, is this a high-quality source considering that it is an advertisement for an entry in the Sokoban series? It doesn't seem sufficiently independent from the subject (the franchise itself) so I would have this whole sentence removed to comply with WP:FACR

The previous summary was wrong. It now reads: "A 1997 article published in Weekly TV Gamer (週刊TV Gamer) introduced Chō Sokoban 55 (チョー倉庫番55) and noted that Sokoban had sparked a craze among office workers through its electronic-organizer versions."

> "Reviewers often emphasized the game's addictive nature" you can remove "often" to make the prose tighter while still getting the meaning across.

I didn't make this change because "Reviewers emphasized" sounds as though all reviewers did so.

> "In its console reviews" I think this is automatically assumed since the reviewer is reviewing the Game Boy version, so you could remove this part.

Done.

> How about "Commentators often highlighted the game’s simplicity, the depth of thought it required of players, or its challenging nature"

I updated it to: "Commentators often highlighted one or more aspects of the game: its simplicity, the depth of thought it required, or its challenging nature." This wording prepares the reader for the examples that follow, which do not necessarily address all three aspects.

> "Micomgames staff described the first Sokoban title as simple yet requiring…" You can also remove "title"

Done.

> You have some scare quotes here and in other parts of the article that could easily be paraphrased as pure prose. Quotations should generally be used for a sentence or longer, and anything less than that tends to disrupt the prose.

I removed all the quotation marks where paraphrasing was possible without changing the nuance. This left only six quotations.

> You use the word "fun" for two sentences in a row.

I updated it to: "Henk Rogers of BPS described Sokoban as a great idea, noting that, unlike role-playing and simulation video games, which involved extensive scenarios and programming, it was very simple yet entertaining.[16]: 49  Satoru Sato of ASCII wrote that Sokoban, despite its visual simplicity, was exceptionally enjoyable and reminded him of the essence of games."

> how about "cited Sokoban as an example of a purely logic-based puzzle, distinguishing it from puzzles that incorporate action-based gameplay or elements of chance"

I prefer the original wording because "enemies or time pressure" adds only a few words while communicating considerably more detail.

> You use the word described twice in both sentences, can you replace one of the uses with a synonym such as "called"?

Done.

> this sentence is a run-on that should have a period after the word "box"

Done.

> since this is the second use of his name, you can just refer to him by his surname.

Done.

> "It sparked a "puzzle game boom" in the Japanese personal computer market starting in 1983 and continuing for a time." Is there an effective date for how long this boom lasted?

The source doesn't mention an end date; it only says that the boom continued for some time. Maybe Eggerland was part of that puzzle game boom? Who knows?

> I think you should place the term "deadlock" in quotation

Maybe this is because it was in quotation marks in the lead. I've removed them from the lead. I think quotation marks are unnecessary here, since the word appears in the dictionary. Do you feel they are needed in this context? Carloseow (talk) 18:45, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for all of your replies. The link in text mode works, and thank you for clarifying everything regarding Weekly TV Gamer. And I can understand why you would not want to add quotation marks around deadlock, so I don't think you are required to have them. All your explanations work so I am happy to support based on the prose. Nice work! Fathoms Below (talk) 19:03, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Drive by comments from Noleander

• Looks like a fun article. Quick comment: the diagram in section Low-mass_X-ray_binary#Formation is essential to help readers understand what is happening. It could be improved a few ways:
  • Consider enlarging it a bit with the "upright" attribute e.g. "upright=1.3"
  • Caption could identify the black figure-8 line as the R. lobe
  • Caption could identify which object (left/right) is the star, and which is the compact object.

I'll try to find time to do a full review. Noleander (talk) 20:45, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

I have increased the size and expanded the caption per your suggestion. I think it looks a lot better than it was, but I am a bit concerned with the image overflowing into the next section. Any ideas? Shocksingularity (talk) 23:50, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Update: I seem to have fixed it by cropping the image into two (one for steps a-c and one for d-e) and placing them side-by-side instead. Shocksingularity (talk) 00:30, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

Looks great! Oversized images are generally discouraged, of course, but in certain circumstances where the image is essential to understanding the associated body text, it is warranted. Noleander (talk) 01:16, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

• What is the reliability of this source: Bahramian, Arash; Degenaar, Nathalie (2024). "Low-Mass X-ray Binaries". Handbook of X-Ray And Gamma-Ray Astrophysics. pp. 3657–3718. arXiv:2206.10053. doi:10.1007/978-981-19-6960-7_94. ISBN 978-981-19-6959-1?
  • The WP RS community says that the Arxiv repository is not very reliable, see WP:ARXIV.
    • The work itself was formally published, the authors just uploaded a preprint version to arXiv. I don't know about other fields but in my experience this is pretty standard practice in astronomy—nowadays, almost every new-ish (post-2000) article I see has an arXiv version uploaded. I did, however, link a PDF of the actual published copy of the chapter for this source and the other book chapter sources in the chapter-url parameter, so it will show up for readers to click on if they view the references. Shocksingularity (talk) 22:53, 10 November 2026 (UTC)
  • Has this particular article been peer-reviewed?
    • This is part of a book, not a paper, so it's not "peer-reviewed" in the same way that a paper is, and admittedly it's probably not quite as good considering that books tend to be quite long, but there is still review. According to the publisher: All books published by Springer Nature undergo review. This usually involves a review by experts; this can be either independent external reviewers or inhouse subject specialists. Proposals and manuscript submissions to Springer Nature are assessed and reviewed by an inhouse editor who decides whether the submission is suitable to send out for further review to appropriate book series editors, editorial board and/or external peer reviewers, after which a decision is made whether the content is suitable for publication. I couldn't find any information on what kind of review this specific chapter or book received, but I did look at the authors, and they both seemed reputable - both Bahramian and Degenaar have continued to publish articles mainly about LMXBs in reputable, peer-reviewed journals such as The Astrophysical Journal and Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society. Shocksingularity (talk) 22:53, 10 November 2026 (UTC)
  • If it is within a "Handbook", why doesn't it have an ISBN?
    • It does have an ISBN, which is 978-981-19-6959-1 (the ISBN applies to the whole book, not just the chapter, but the DOI is chapter-specific).
  • Who is the publisher?
    • This is a chapter in a reference work published by Springer Nature.

That source still seems fishy. I understand that Arxiv is used a lot these days by academics facing "publish or perish" pressure, but WP:ARXIV is red-flagged for a reason. Just because it was compiled into a book with an ISBN is not really very dispositive. Some editor is going to do a source review on this FAC nomination, and you need to be prepared in case they raise concerns about the source. Certainly astrophysics has many peer-reviewed journals, correct? Question: are there any peer-reviewed journal articles that cover material comparable to what is in this Bahramian source? Noleander (talk) 00:24, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

This isn't a "publish or perish" situation, sorry I haven't done the best job explaining but I was trying to say that a lot of physicists also upload a copy of their paper to arXiv, even if they also get their paper peer-reviewed and published. Sometimes, they even upload after their paper has been accepted to a journal or after it's been published. For example, 164 of the 268 sources in Black hole have preprint versions, but only 1 of those is actually a preprint. (It's used to verify an uncontroversial historical fact, see WP:SPSPREPRINT) Per WP:PREPRINT, an article having a preprint doesn't mean you should just get rid of it as a source, but instead check if it's been published in a peer-reviewed journal and cite that instead. I doubt the source in question was posted on arXiv first and then compiled into a book because this comment by authors on the arXiv post implies the opposite: Invited chapter for Handbook of X-ray and Gamma-ray Astrophysics (Section Eds. V. Doroshenko, A. Santangelo; Eds. C. Bambi and A. Santangelo, Springer Singapore, expected in 2022)

However, there are published papers on the topics covered in the article. My confidence in the Bahramian source was affirmed by my previous work on Atoll source and Z source and my later work on Ultracompact X-ray binary, Symbiotic X-ray binary, and Accreting millisecond X-ray pulsar, for which journal sources that covered these specific object classes in more depth corroborated the accuracy. Although there are not many journal sources that cover LMXBs as a whole - the topic is very broad and journal papers can't be as long as book chapters - there are papers that cover the various topics mentioned in the book chapter, such as this one on formation, this one on properties, this one on evolution & dynamics, and more on the individual pages for the various subtypes.

I will also add that the Bahramian source is a review, so it's not doing any research of its own so much as it is summing up the state of the field as a whole and citing the sources from where it gets information. Shocksingularity (talk) 05:56, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Sounds good: I was just giving you a heads up so you'll be ready if the source reviewer brings it up. Noleander (talk) 13:25, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

• Wording: "... there is a notable paucity with periods less than 4 hours or greater than 1 week. " not as encyclopedic/professional as it should be.
  • Changed to Confirmed BH LMXBs all have orbital periods ranging from hours to weeks, with few having periods less than 4 hours or greater than 1 week. Shocksingularity (talk) 22:53, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

• Redundancy: Confirmed BH LMXBs all have orbital periods ranging from hours to weeks; there is a notable paucity with periods less than 4 hours or greater than 1 week. Conversely, neutron star (NS) LMXBs have much wider variation in orbital duration, with periods of confirmed NS LMXBs ranging from 11 minutes to 3.1 years. Additionally, unlike BH LMXBs, many NS LMXBs have been observed with very short orbital periods, on the scale of a few hours or less. That seems to say this twice: "Some NS have periods under 4 hours, whereas BH rarely do". Should only say it once.
  • Fixed - I removed the latter sentence. Shocksingularity (talk) 22:53, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

• Acronym (NS) is defined twice. Usually acronyms are only defined once, at first usage. The acronym is used a lot throughout the article, so no reason to redefine it in every major section (as may be okay if it were used only twice, spaced far apart)
  • Fixed, I removed the second instance. Shocksingularity (talk) 22:53, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

• Noleander (talk) 17:40, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

UC

This is a very technical article, but even allowing for some generous assumptions about the typical reader's background knowledge, there are some bits which are very tricky. I'll try to give some representative examples:

• in a close binary, but not so close that mass transfer occurs while both stars are still on the main sequence. I can just about work out "close binary" and what "mass transfer" is, but what is the "main sequence" and why would we expect mass transfer to happen if they were closer?
  • I ultimately removed that clause because I didn't think it was particularly important and it just makes it more confusing. FWIW—the main sequence is the main period of a star's life where it isn't dying or just being formed. And mass transfer would happen if they were closer because the gravitational pull of the other star would be stronger. Shocksingularity (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2026 (UTC)
• it will fill its Roche lobe, creating a common envelope between the two stars: we never, as far as I can see, explain or even link what a Roche lobe is.
  • Roche lobe is defined in the lead: ...the low-mass star fills its Roche lobe—the region around the star where matter is gravitationally bound to it... I also added another mention in the Formation section: When it reaches the point that the secondary star is no longer able to keep all of its material gravitationally bound to it, the secondary star will have filled its Roche lobe... Shocksingularity (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

  On this, per MOS:LEAD, The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic ... Significant information should not appear in the lead, apart from basic facts, if it is not covered in the remainder of the article (emphasis mine). In other words, the lead and the body are essentially separate articles: we shouldn't have important information in the lead that isn't repeated in the body. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:47, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• However, the apparent (observed) luminosity of an intrinsically-bright LMXB may be low due to occultation of the source.
  • I expanded this to be hopefully a little more clear: The intrinsic luminosity of an LMXB scales with its mass accretion rate. However, the apparent (observed) luminosity of an intrinsically-bright LMXB may be low because the source is occulted. This happens more often in systems with a high orbital inclination or strong accretion disk wind because the most luminous part of the LMXB is obscured. I also added more explanation to an earlier section of the properties section. It was originally this: Unlike HMXBs, LMXBs are typically devoid of typical stellar absorption features, possibly because the total emission from the system is dominated by light from the accretion disk of the compact object. which I expanded to this: Unlike HMXBs, the spectra of LMXBs lack typical stellar absorption features. This is believed to be because the total emission from the system is dominated by light from the accretion disk of the compact object rather than light from the donor star. This makes spectral features of the donor star far less visible. This will hopefully make it more obvious why this cause and effect happens. Shocksingularity (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2026 (UTC)
• LMXBs are usually old systems: how old are we talking? I'm a classicist, so "old" to me is... maybe 2000 years?
  • Clarified: LMXBs are usually billions of years old... Shocksingularity (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2026 (UTC)
• the donor is not yet old enough to fill its Roche lobe due to stellar evolution given the age of the universe, so sufficient orbital decay must happen in order for the star to fill its Roche lobe, : this is a slightly unusual case in that I understand every individual thing the article is saying, but without a bit more explanation, it's not clear how or why each piece follows from each other. Why does the star need to be of a certain age to fill its Roche lobe? What problem does stellar evolution create for that, and why is the age of the universe an issue? What's orbital decay and how does it help?
  • I clarified this: LMXB evolution cannot happen due to stellar evolution because for the star to evolve enough to expand and fill its Roche lobe, it would have to be older than the age of the universe. Hopefully my added explanation of Roche lobes in the Formation section will make it clearer as to why orbital decay would cause this. Shocksingularity (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

I found the "Formation" particularly tough going here, and appreciated the fuller explanations in the "Dynamics" section when I got there.

Separately, I think we need a good definition and a bit of context in the body before we get into the formation section: otherwise, bits like very few black hole (BH) LMXBs are in globular clusters make little sense.

While in some cases the Wikilinks help (and I must say that the large diagram in "Formation" is very helpful to those who can access it), links should not substitute for providing the full range of necessary information to understand this article within it. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:59, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback! I have tried to make some of the technical parts less confusing and better explain what is going on. In addition to all the things I mentioned above, I also swapped the order of some of the phrases in the paragraph mentioning BHs in globular clusters to make it clearer. I hope these improvements help, let me know if there's any more that (still) doesn't make sense. Shocksingularity (talk) 23:19, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

A few more:

• As of 2024, around 200 confirmed and candidate LMXBs have been discovered in the Milky Way: can we separate these two numbers, or at least give an idea of the balance between "yes" and "maybe"? Sounds a bit like "there are four convicted or potential serial killers in my neighbourhood".
• Unlike HMXBs: I can work out what a HMXB is, but it's not defined in the body. Again, I think a "definitions and terminology" section would be much to the good.
  • I specified that an HMXB is a high-mass X-ray binary. Should I also specify that the HMXB has a high-mass donor star or is that already obvious? Shocksingularity (talk) 07:57, 13 November 2026 (UTC)
• The subsection In systems with M- and K- type donor stars seems like it would fit better in "Formation" than "Evolution". In the former, we have so far said that the first step in the formation is the evolution of the primary star into a giant, but now we say that this isn't necessarily the case -- what matters is that the two objects end up close together, which can happen by evolution or by other means.
  • I’m considering moving the evolution section to be right after the formation section, to better connect them since there is overlap. I could also just combine them into one section and make the current formation section the lead of the new section. What do you think? Shocksingularity (talk) 08:25, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

  I think that would work if the overall thing doesn't get too bloated. Perhaps even a section with two subsections? As ever, the precise decisions are yours to make as the writer/nominator: all that matters is that we get across the necessary information to the reader. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:38, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

  Ok, I combined the sections and moved a small part of the formation section to properties. Hopefully it will flow more cohesively now. Shocksingularity (talk) 21:51, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

  We still have When the more massive star evolves into a giant, which implies that this always happens. But then we say that it doesn't, if the more massive star isn't all that massive. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 19:12, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

  It’s actually less massive star that doesn’t always evolve into a giant. I edited the formation section to specifically use “secondary star” when referring to the less massive star to make it less confusing. Shocksingularity (talk) 23:27, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• mass transfer may initially be thermally unstable, driving the donor star out of thermal equilibrium; however, eventually, mass transfer will stabilize and thermal equilibrium will be restored: another one for WP:MTAU.
  • Changed to: In cases where the donor star is more massive than the compact object, mass transfer may initially be thermally unstable—the rate at which the star produces heat energy and the rate at which it releases that energy by radiating it away will have become imbalanced. However, eventually, mass transfer will stabilize and thermal equilibrium will be restored. I realize that I did not explicitly define thermal equilibrium here—is it intuitive enough (that it's the opposite of being thermally unstable) or should I also define it? Shocksingularity (talk) 07:57, 13 November 2026 (UTC)
• For systems with radiative common envelopes: ditto, for MOS:NOFORCELINK.
  • Fixed: I explained what radiation means in this context in the article. Shocksingularity (talk) 21:51, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

More to follow.

RedShellMomentum

Will do. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 18:02, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

@Crystal Drawers: Image review and source spot-check passed, happy to support. I currently have a nomination for "Señorita" up; you may leave comments there if you wish RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 18:51, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the reviews and support! Yes, I’d be happy to review your nomination, that’s always been one of my favorites on the album so it should be a fun one to review, expect comments in the coming days :) Crystal Drawers 🎖️ ^{(wanna talk?)} 19:20, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

@Crystal Drawers: Courtesy ping RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 03:05, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Just a support

I gave some morsels of advice and help wherever the need arose, and now I'll support this work's promotion on prose alone. That's all I looked out for when reading the article, and in any event, I haven't read enough featured articles on songs to judge between adequacy and excellence. DannyRogers800 (talk) 00:36, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

RedShellMomentum

Will do. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 16:23, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

@Carnival of Lights: Image review and source spot-check passed, happy to support. I currently have a nomination for "Señorita" up; you may leave comments there if you wish RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 16:42, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

Support from Not-cheesewhisk3rs

One comment: I think the alternative names in the first sentence would fit better in an {{efn}}. At the moment the first sentence is quite wordy. Other than that, I couldn't find any significant issues at the peer review, and all of my comments were addressed, so I'm happy to support. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 14:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Dragonhawk12

Spot-check

This table lists 5 random passages from throughout the article (2.2% of 224 total passages). These passages contain 6 inline citations (2.5% of 244 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 02:36, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

I decided to do a spot-check of the article's citations. Can you please send the books and their necessary pages that I can't access? You can either send them through my email listed on my userpage or my Discord at Dragonhawk12, which is preferred. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 02:36, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

Also, once you respond, please ping me so I can see your message quicker. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 02:37, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

@Dragonhawk12: First email sent. -Indy beetle (talk) 07:53, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

@Dragonhawk12: Email with source material sent. -Indy beetle (talk) 05:27, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

Your spot-check passed with flying colors. I can support on sourcing. Good work! Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 05:59, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• @Indy beetle: I don't have the time to do a review here due to other on-Wiki commitments, but I've made a few revisions to the prose. Good luck with the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 05:03, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Noting my thanks to the copy edit and without objection. -Indy beetle (talk) 07:29, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

Icepinner

An ancient thoroughfare, interesting. Will provide comments in the next few days. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 09:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

• Thanks, Icepinner. I'll work through these as I can and look forward to more when you have them. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:30, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

• Add IPA pronunciation for "Panathenaic Way"?
  • Aha -- I'm rubbish with the IPA, but the Oxford English Dictionary has got there first and made one for us. Added to the footnote. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
• I see the article has abbreviated years such as "from at least 182/1 BCE". MOS:YEARRANGE: "Never use abbreviated years for ranges where the first digits change (1899–1900, not 1899–00) or for years from the first millennium (886–887, not 886–87)", no?
  • These are not ranges: they're years of the Athenian civil calendar (which is explained in one of the footnotes). The Athenian civil year ran from midsummer to midsummer, so for example 182/1 BCE (July 182 – July 181) is different from 182/181 BCE (between either Jan 182 and Dec 182, or Jan 181 and Dec 181), and different again from 182–181 BCE (Jan 182 to Dec 181). This is the universal convention for this particular usage in WP:HQRS, and "rule zero" of the MoS is to do what good sources do (remembering that the MoS covers widely applicable generalities, not rare exceptions), so I think we should follow it. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:30, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
    • Ah, I see. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 11:03, 5 November 2026 (UTC)
• "traditionally dated to 566/5 BCE" is this date range under the Athenian Calendar? If so, footnote c should be moved there.
  • Yes, good spot. Moved. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
• File:Panathenaic Way Course.svg – really nice drawing, but the map doesn't actually indicate what the numbered landmarks along the Panathenaic Way are, so it's not really effective for conveying information to the reader.
  • Yes, this came up at GAN as well. The issue is that there are far too many buildings to fit into a caption, and quite a few aren't relevant to this particular article. Do you think an EFN with them all would help? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

  I had a go at putting this EFN together and it looks OK, so I think it's a good addition. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:14, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

I think that's fine, though I was thinking more of a key in the map itself. It's fine either way, especially if there's not enough space in the map. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 11:03, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "the bedrock in this area" link bedrock?
  • Why not: done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
• "the canalisation of the Eridanos" the link to canalisation should be moved here
  • Yes, it should: done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
• I see some centuries are written in Arabic numerals (ex: "Athenian coin of the 2nd century CE"), while most of them are written in words – this should be consistent per MOS:CENTURY
  • It is consistent: century numbers in the text are written in words; in captions, where space is at a greater premium, they are written in figures. The relevant guidance here is MOS:CAPTION and MOS:CAPSUCCINCT. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
    • I see "Some of these stoas, constructed prior to the mid 1st century CE" in the article body, though. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 11:03, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

      Oh yes, I'd missed that. Fixed. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:45, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• I'm not sure if this goes beyond what FAC stipulates (maybe this is part of some obscure image policy), but I think it might be worth mentioning it here: the caption for the multiple image template has "left" and "right", but the documentation for {{multiple image}} says "Avoid 'left' and 'right' if possible, since mobile devices may display the images vertically".
  • No, it's within scope for FAC, though it's also a trade-off: "left" and "right" may not always be correct, but if the alternative is giving no indication as to which image is which, that might not be an improvement. Here I think it's reasonably obvious, on reflection, which is the photograph and which is the drawing, so I've just removed it, on the grounds that it probably wasn't helping anyone anyway. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
• "At the northwest corner of the Agora, immediately next to the Stoa Basileios, it was crossed by the Eridanos river; the river was probably crossed by means of a bridge from the earliest times" you repeat "crossed" twice. Not a big deal, but is there a way to rephrase it to avoid this repetition?
  • I'm not coming up with a lot of good ideas at the moment. I'll keep thinking on it; happy to take a suggestion if you have one. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 22:28, 5 November 2026 (UTC)
• "approximately 1.5 kilometres (0.9 mi) from the gate" perhaps rephrase it to something like "approximately 1.5 kilometres (0.9 mi) away from the Diplyon Gate"?
  • Definitely a good idea, as the Propylaia is a gate of sorts -- done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 22:28, 5 November 2026 (UTC)
• "There is no evidence of wheel ruts in the fifth-century BCE layers" link ruts to Rut (roads)?
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 22:28, 5 November 2026 (UTC)
• "in honour of the Spartan soldiers killed supporting the Athenian democratic uprising against the Thirty Tyrants" link "the Athenian democratic uprising" to Phyle Campaign?
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 22:28, 5 November 2026 (UTC)
• "it was forbidden to erect any other monuments in its vicinity" the road or the statue(s)' vicinity? If it was the road's vincinity, then why?
  • The monument: changed. The specific source I'm citing doesn't say why, but one assumes because it was felt to be a very important monument. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)
• "The route was changed to enter the Acropolis from the west at some point between c. 550 and c. 514 BCE" is there any reason why the route was changed, out of curiosity?
  • As you may infer from the EFN, this is not a well documented event: we can only pin it down as far as we can (to about half a century) because of two completely disconnected and almost coincidental bits of evidence. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)
• The map actually makes me wonder why the route went around the Eleusinion – wouldn't it be more convenient if they designated the road along the Eleusinion as part of the Way?
  • Pass, I'm afraid. Processional routes aren't usually about getting from A to B as efficiently as possible, so one assumes that there was felt to be some value in going the "long" way around. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

  Fair enough, that makes a lot of sense! Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 05:07, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

  @Icepinner: in the course of trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to find answers to some queries below, I found out that this is actually quite an interesting and complicated question. You may find the new additions to the article of interest, and I've removed the "bump" from the map, since Travlos draws a distinction between the "Panathenaiac Way" (to the west) and the route of the Panathenaiac procession (the bump to the east) -- and in any case it's a bit dubious whether the "bump" was a normal part of the event. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:43, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

• " through an agora to the north" link agora?
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)
• "when sacrifices to the pre-Christian Graeco-Roman gods were outlawed" by whom?
  • Theodosius I. I've added his name, as it's useful context that this came from outside Athens. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)
• "and ancient routes around the Agora and Areopagus" link Areopagus?
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)
• Nees 2023: its ISBN should be hyphenated, as the rest of the citations follow that scheme.
  • Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)
• Reviewing the lead again:

• "in the northwest of the city to the Acropolis in its centre" the underlined part isn't mentioned in the body

• • It now is. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

@UndercoverClassicist: I think that's all my comments for now. A very well-written article. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 04:02, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

• Thank you -- all replied, I think. Greatly appreciate your time and sharp-eyed comments. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:48, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

Support on prose. Regarding "At the northwest corner of the Agora, immediately next to the Stoa Basileios, it was crossed by the Eridanos river; the river was probably crossed by means of a bridge from the earliest times" you repeat "crossed" twice. Not a big deal, but is there a way to rephrase it to avoid this repetition?: I think the best way is to replace the second "crossed" with "traversed". But feel free to suggest any other ideas. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 10:58, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

Thank you, Icepinner. To me, "traversing" a river means wading or otherwise going through it, or perhaps stepping over it: I don't think it's really the right idiom for walking over a bridge. But will keep thinking on it. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 12:12, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

A bridge can span a river. A river can pass under a bridge. Maybe change ... the river was probably crossed by means of a bridge... to the river was probably spanned by a bridge ... Noleander (talk) 12:21, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

Oh, good suggestion: done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 22:38, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• @UndercoverClassicist: Great to have our classicist-in-residence back at FAC. Comments to follow. MSincccc (talk) 13:57, 3 November 2026 (UTC)
  • Thank you for picking this up, MSincccc. I've replied to your first comment below and look forward to any more you may have. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

• As an initial comment, I would suggest adding the relevant language template ("Use... English"). Best, MSincccc (talk) 14:03, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

  • Thanks -- done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

Names and date

• "...around 575 BCE: this has been associated with the expropriation" → *"...around 575 BCE: their closure has been associated with the expropriation"
  • What's the problem that you think this would fix? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:36, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

  It clarifies what "this" refers to. The next suggestion sort of simplifies the sentence.

  You might leave them, if you please. The article has been a fine read so far. MSincccc (talk) 09:02, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 07:29, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Course

• "After the hasty construction in the winter of 479/8 BCE of the Themistoklean Wall" → "After the Themistoklean Wall was hastily constructed in the winter of 479/8 BCE"
  • That would require quite a substantial re-engineering of the sentence, and I'm not sure it would bring much benefit. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:37, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

A few more suggestions for the time being. Best, MSincccc (talk) 07:41, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Structures and monuments

• "This was the origin-point for festive processions"
  • How about "starting point" in place of "origin-point"? Or is it a specific term?
    • "Starting-point" is probably clearer: changed. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:37, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
• "Further excavation in 2010–2012 revealed a second identical line 12 metres (39 ft) to the south, and additional postholes forming the additional sides of a square enclosure approximately 12 by 15 metres (39 by 49 ft) in area."
  • Could we avoid repeating "additional"? How about "other" in the second instance?
    • Done with "remaining". UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:37, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 09:10, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• Thanks, MSincccc: all replied so far. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:37, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Use in festivals

• "As a processional route, the Panathenaic Way replaced an older route which entered the Acropolis from the south-east,..., before ascending the Acropolis from the south." → "As a processional route, the Panathenaic Way replaced an older route that entered the Acropolis from the south-east,...before ascending the Acropolis from the south."
  • "which" → that Also do we need the comma before "before"?

MSincccc (talk) 16:10, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Yes, changed to "that" -- it's a restrictive clause. The comma is needed because it's at the end of a parenthetical clause, which is offset by commas. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 18:21, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Image review - pass

Hi UndercoverClassicist, happy to do the image review. The article contains the following images:

• https://agora.ascsa.net/id/agora/image/1997.15.0314

  Used as an external image, but it is not loading for me.

  Yeah, I had the same problem. I think the problem is on the ASCSA's end. I've swapped the link to one to Wayback. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:05, 4 November 2026 (UTC)

  Pro tip: The ascsa.net server sometimes goes on the fritz for short periods of time. As an alternative, try replacing https://agora.ascsa.net/ with https://agathe.gr/ in the URL. Agathe.gr was the original address for the Agora excavation database; later, when they consolidated various ASCSA projects (Agora, Corinth, Archives, etc.) under the ascsa.net umbrella, they mirrored most of the content there, which is convenient, but occasionally unreliable. You can stick with the archived link if you prefer, or you can replace it with https://agathe.gr/id/agora/image/1997.15.0314, which will work just as well. This is true for most things in the Agora archives, so keep it in mind for future Athenian articles. Cheers, Choliamb (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Panathenaic_way.jpg

  CC BY-SA 4.0, own work

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Panathenaic_Way_Course.svg

  CC BY-SA 4.0, own work

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Monnaie_-_Bronze,_Ath%C3%A8nes,_Attique_-_btv1b85652466_(2_of_2).jpg

  PD, from Bibliothèque nationale de France

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Atena_Promacos.jpg

  PD due to age

  There seems to be a discrepancy: the caption and alt-text call it a drawing but the file description says woodcut.

  Good spot: I've amended to "woodcut" throughout. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:05, 4 November 2026 (UTC)

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kerameikos_Pompeion_from_SE.jpg

  CC BY 4.0, own work

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Monument_pedestal_Krates_victory_S399_ancient_agora_museum_Athens.jpg

  PD, own work

All images are relevant to the article and placed in appropriate locations. They have alt-texts and captions. Happy WikiBirthday by the way! Phlsph7 (talk) 10:26, 4 November 2026 (UTC)

• Thank you -- and I hadn't realised! I will have to think of an appropriate way to celebrate. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:05, 4 November 2026 (UTC)

  I only caught it by chance: on your user page, the infobox "User Wikipedian For" has a special message on WikiBirthdays. The changes above take care of the concerns. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:16, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• Overall the prose is very clean and professional; very readable.

• Ambiguous "Landmarks along the Panathenaic Way included the Pompeion, from which festive processions began the route along it; the Altar of the Twelve Gods; and a monument to the "Tyrannicides", Harmodius and Aristogeiton. It was used for several events ..." Not entirely clear what "it was used" is referring to: the P. Way, or the the previous noun, namely the monument to the "Tyrannicides". I'm guessing it refers to the P. Way, but other readers may get confused.
  • Definitely: changed. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

• Excellent map File:Panathenaic Way Course.svg. Very nice.

• Regarding the map caption for File:Panathenaic Way Course.svg - consider putting the legend info from the efn footnote into the caption directly: (a) may help blind users, since their screen readers may read the caption, but won't read the efn footnote. (b) Even sighted readers may be annoyed at having to go back and forth to the footnote. Alternatively, embed the legend into the map itself?
  • I thought about putting it in the caption, but the issue is that it makes the caption very long, which butts up against MOS:CAPTION. I've put a mock-up here so you can see what I mean. I resisted putting the caption in the image for a few reasons -- firstly, the image could be useful in articles that don't need to identify every building (for example, one on the Dipylon Gate); secondly, there isn't really a conveniently largely spot of whitespace to put it in, so we'd need to add a bit to the bottom or side of the image, which would crowd an already busy image and make the graphical information less visible at a given scale. What do you think: does the version here look better? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

  @UndercoverClassicist - The body text names 10 features that are visible in the map; ideally, any reader should be able to glance at the map and find one of those features in under 2 seconds. Most readers will not click on an efn footnote.

  I think the guidance of MOS:CAPTION would permit a large-ish caption in this situation because the additional text helps the reader locate critical features in the map (impossible to do effectively via body text). The tentative caption could be trimmed a bit by omitting the four features that are not mentioned in body text (9, 11, 12, 14).

  Alternatively: consider creating a second version of the map in Commons with the legend embedded (the beauty of SVG!) and editors could choose between the two? Noleander (talk) 12:40, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

• I've gone and "promoted" the footnote, with the full caption. Some of the features not mentioned (like the Parthenon) are well-known enough that people will use them as orienting marks; it then looks a bit odd to have a caption that lists 10 or so non-consecutive items out of 13 or 14. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:47, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

• Citation/source: Formatting is uniform and consistent. Cites meet MOS requirements.

• Confusing abbreviation: UK: /ˌpanaθᵻˈneɪɪk/, pan-ath-uh-NAY-ik.[2] Ancient Greek: Ὁδός Παναθηναίων, romanised: Hodos Panathēnaiōn. ... I'm embarrassed to say that I do not know what to make of the "UK". There is no wikilink on it. Is that United Kingdom, as in the UK variant of the English language? Or something related to the subsequent pronunciation? I'm familiar with International Phonetic Alphabet ... is it related to that? I looked in UK (disambiguation) and nothing there seemed apt. If it means "UK variant of English" perhaps you could add a wikilink to British English.
  • It's the output of {{IPA}} when passed with the |en-GB= parameter. I think this is actually an error with the template, looking at its documentation, but for now I've added a manual override to the label. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

• List seems a bit obscure/unnecessary for the Lead: "...it has been investigated since by the German Archaeological Institute at Athens, the American School of Classical Studies at Athens, and the Greek Archaeological Service"
  • Hm: sure, not too many general readers will know exactly what those three institutions are, but it's pretty clear from the name of each one roughly what it is. I think it's notable and interesting to say "this archaeological thing has been considered important enough to work on by archaeologists from three countries". We're summarising the "Archaeological investigations" subsection here, where they all get namechecked. I'm not sure that any of the other post-1837 projects are individually notable enough to single out here. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

• Lead has "... sections have also been restored and developed for touristic purposes in the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries." Can that be expanded to tell the reader what the overall condition of the P. Way is today, at least the red-line portion in the map? Is it entirely revealed (as in the InfoBox photo)? or are parts of it beneath modern structures? Can a tourist today walk the full length of the red line? Can the Lead tell the reader: if they went there today, what % of the P. Way is visible and walkable vs how much hidden.
  • Walking the Panathenaic Way (from the Academy) is actually on my "to-do" list next time I manage to get to Athens: I haven't actually been on much of it, apart from the bits in the Agora and the route up the Acropolis. Most of the ancient road surface is underneath the modern city, as far as I know; I did have a look for a source that puts a figure on the excavated percentage, but an so far drawing a blank. As you can see from the pictures in the eKathemeri article, where they've restored access to the course of the ancient route, they've often done so by putting a modern surface above it (including, controversially, on the Acropolis itself). UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)
    • Butting in here to provide a little more information: only two stretches of the road are exposed and walkable today: in the Kerameikos, just outside the Dipylon Gate, and through the Agora up to the Acropolis (apart from the detour around the east side of the Eleusinion). Between the Kerameikos and Agora excavation zones the line of the road is followed more or less closely by modern Hermes and Hadrian streets, but there's nothing ancient to see. As for your plan to walk all the way to (or from) the Academy, UC, I would advise against it. It's only a mile or so, but the entire area is built over and the journey on foot through the concrete apartment blocks and commercial buildings is unrewarding. From time to time I've spoken with enthusiastic students who have read the 19th-century descriptions of the Academy and are eager to walk in the footsteps of Plato and hear the nightingales singing in the shady woods; without exception they describe the trek as one of the most depressing experiences of their visit to Athens. You can do a virtual dry run at https://www.dipylon-walktoplatosacademy.org/#/en (click on web tour) and decide for yourself. Choliamb (talk) 12:55, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

      Wikipedia editors never cease to amaze me. I had a similar experience in London looking for the London Wall ... I don't know what I was expecting, but I spent most of my time dodging traffic.

      That web site you mention is really cool ... definitely should be in the article's External Links.

      Is there any Reliable source available that summarizes what you just wrote? i.e. that states that "most of the Way has been built over"? Or, if you are an academic, you could post a note on a university blog somewhere and nominator could use that as a source :-) Noleander (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

      I don't know of any offhand. It's the sort of thing that's obvious on the ground and in satellite photos like those in Google Maps, but most academic publications about the Academy don't dwell on the insalubrious modern environs. You might have better luck with popular travel guides, which sometimes warn visitors not to expect a pleasant stroll (e.g., "North-west of the Keramikos, a series of dreary streets leads between garages, workshops and apartments to the Kolonos district. This is the site of Plato's Academy." But most of these aren't written by subject-matter experts, and it might be hard to find one that specifically mentions the ancient road, so it would be WP:SYNTH in any case. There are plenty of worse sources cited in many WP archaeological articles, but I don't think this would fly in a FA. Choliamb (talk) 16:10, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

      Hmmm. The current condition of the P. Way is pretty important information for the article. @UndercoverClassicist - In my opinion, non-academic sources, e.g. travel guides etc, would be acceptable. Consider it comparable to a "Society and culture" section, where it is describing popular/current facts - in that situation academic sources are not required.

      Alternatively: is there any free-to-use aerial photography of Athens that can be used? From OpenStreetMap etc? If so, the article could include the aerial photo and draw the P. Way graphic over it. Readers would be able to see it passing under/by modern buildings.

      Here is an aerial pic of Acropolis in Commons.

      This is an interactive website with aerial views of Athens. Not sure if it has any copyright restrictions. Noleander (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

      The Greek government imagery at that web site unfortunately has a non-commercial restriction (για χρήση μη εμπορική; terms of use here), which means it can't be uploaded to the Commons. The first photo would do the job, although the crop is not ideal. The Academy is the green blotch partly cut off in the middle of the upper edge of the image; if you draw a straight line between that and the Acropolis, the Kerameikos excavation zone is the brown trapezoid at the northernmost end of the central archaeological area, from which it is separated by the conspicuous line of the Athens–Piraeus railroad. Choliamb (talk) 17:11, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

      I am a little dubious about the external link, because it only covers the bit (in reverse) between the Academy and the Dipylon, whereas the Panathenaic Way proper is usually reckoned as being the bit from the Dipylon to the Acropolis. However, I've added it for now; that route did play a role in some festivals, and we've talked about it in the article. It's also, if nothing else, a pretty cool site.

      On the road's present condition, I am so far failing to find anything at all beyond what we have in anything remotely resembling a WP:RS (or anything else, for that matter). As WP:DUEWEIGHT reminds us, Neutrality requires that mainspace articles and pages fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in those sources (emphasis mine). If that proportion is zero, then DUEWEIGHT (and its sister, WP:UNDUE) ties our hands: the proportion in the article must be zero. However, if you do find a source that passes the RS bar, let me know. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:43, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

• Dates of earliest use? Very tantalizing facts: "The Panathenaic Way is among the oldest known routeways in Athens; it may be the only one with evidence of use in the Neolithic period (c. 7000 – c. 3200 BCE) ... " with citation "For the absolute dates of the Neolithic in Greece, see Bintliff 2012, p. 46 I cannot tell from that wording if the sources pinpoint the earliest use to the broad range "7000 to 3200", or to a more specific range within that. Either way, can the cite clarify?
  • Unfortunately, the source just says It is perhaps the only excavated street with identifiable Neolithic surfaces of use. Common sense and probability say that we're probably talking about the later end of that distribution rather than the beginning. I'll have a look in some of the archaeological reports and see if they are more specific. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

  Drew a blank here, unfortunately. WP:OR alert: the word "perhaps" (mirrored in the sources) might be doing quite a lot of work. Costaki and Theocharaki say definitively that it's got identifiable Neolithic layers, but I am struggling to find that in any excavation report (although there's a good chance that they're in Greek journals that are not the easiest to search). @Choliamb: I don't know if you know of any excavation reports that found Neolithic material on the Way? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:46, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

  (Following the kind soul who found me Costaki's DPhil thesis on RX, I've now found the 1939 Agora report, which -- reassuringly -- is absolutely categoric that there's at least some Neolithic use on a (rather) small stretch. Will add.) UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 22:23, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

  As far as I know (but keep in mind that I am not a prehistorian), most or all of the Neolithic material from Athens is Late Neolithic (ca. 3200–3000 BCE). There is earlier Neolithic activity elsewhere in Attica, but apparently not in Athens itself. Most of the Athenian evidence comes from a group of wells on the northwest shoulder of the Acropolis, which were excavated just before WWII; for these, see Immerwahr in Agora XIII, pp. 1–50, and for the date, p. 21. For Neolithic road strata at the northwest corner of the Agora, see Shear Sr in Hesperia 1940, pp. 299–300 ("The earliest use, as indicated by the pottery, goes back to Neolithic times"). Immerwahr (Agora XIII, p. 52, n. 3) gives more detail, and is more hesitant about the dating ("possibly Neolithic", "either Late Neolithic or Early Helladic"); see also p. 2 ("nothing that is distinctively Neolithic"). For the road in the Bronze Age, see p. 113. Make of this what you will. It's possible that more recent Greek excavations further west have produced further evidence, but I know nothing about them. (If Ficuciello has references to reports in the Deltion, that would presumably be the place to look.) Choliamb (talk) 22:51, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

  I've stuck that material in, and slightly shortened the date range. Immerwahr doesn't give a date for the LN, but I assume she's including what we would now call the Final Neolithic (otherwise we need to put a strange "hole" in the date range), which means I've had to be a little coy with some of the phrasing. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:00, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

• Links to Greek WP? I see some red links. Can any be directed at Greek WP? e.g. is Leokoreion the Greek WP article Λεωκόριον? Ditto for City Eleusinion, Villa of the Giants, Street of the Tripods. The {{interlanguage link}} template is useful.
  • Done for the Leokoreion; will come back and look at the others. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

  I think I've now added redirects or ILLs for all of the redlinks that have them. Where I couldn't find one, I've created a Wikidata item. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 16:19, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

• Minor nitpick: When authors have multiple sources, sometimes the "author-link" is used for all of their works; sometimes only one work (e.g. Shear, T. Leslie).
  • I think it's consistent: T. Leslie Shear is not the same man as his son, T. Leslie Shear, Jr. [de]. Shear the elder only has one citation and Shear the younger doesn't yet have an enWiki article. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:53, 7 November 2026 (UTC)

• That's all I have. Really interesting article; nearly perfect quality. Ping me when you have considered the above items. Noleander (talk) 21:19, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

  @Noleander: I think this is back to you now. I haven't been able to do much on the road's present state, unfortunately, though turned over a lot of rocks (paving stones?) in the attempt, from which I've managed to take a couple of details which are now added to the article. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 18:51, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

• Support on prose and MOS. I have not done an image or source review. I love this article ... something about the continuity of Greece to Rome to France to England to California ... the whole Western Canon thing. "It preserves wheel ruts made by traffic moving along it" reminds me of one of my favorite travel memories: visting the Via Domitia in southern France and seeing the chariot ruts in the stones from 2,000 years ago. Noleander (talk) 20:06, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

  Thank you, Noleander. Yes, I agree there's something (particularly) special about being able to put your feet on the very stones where ancient people did, and seeing things like wheel ruts, footprints and handprints -- it helps to make the distant past a bit more real. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 22:37, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

Image review by Gommeh

• I'll do an image review. 🎮Gommeh ^(📖/💬) 16:04, 2 November 2026 (UTC)
• Infobox image has alt text, but the description on the file's page and the alt text could both be improved. I would suggest looking at the description of File:Rosa 10 28 2023 MBA keeper.jpg for reference. The alt text should be more descriptive - what does Rosa look like, and what is her pose?
• Monterey Bay Aquarium image is appropriately licensed, and the alt text, file description, and caption are fine as is.
• With regards to the YouTube video, admittedly I don't know what the standards would be for that, but I don't know whether it would be encyclopedic to include the video. I'll defer to others as to whether to remove or keep it, but just to give you a heads up.
• The Happy Birthday Rosa image is fine as is except for the size, which I've decided to make smaller myself. Additionally, I have moved it up so that it is closer to the section in which the contest is discussed and doesn't cause issues with displaying the references section (it forced it into one column, making it look weird).
• No other issues here; I will pass the image review pending adjustments to the alt text of the infobox image. I have an FAC open for Traveler (Genshin Impact) (nom) -- any comments there would be appreciated. 🎮Gommeh ^(📖/💬) 16:15, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

  I tweaked the alt text for the lead image. Hopefully it’s better. thanks for the review! Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 18:44, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

  Yes, this is better. Image review passed. Good luck! 🎮Gommeh (📖/💬) 18:09, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks! Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 19:01, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Source spot-check - pass

Will do. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 20:05, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

This table lists 2 random passages from throughout the article (4.9% of 41 total passages). These passages contain 2 inline citations (4.0% of 50 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 20:05, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

@Dragonhawk12: Problem with the spot-check below. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 20:10, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

The source says "Rosa joined the aquarium in September 1999, after being found stranded on the beach as a 4-week-old pup". If she was 4 weeks old in September 26, 1999, that would put her birthday in late August. Is this not good enough? Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 20:14, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

@Dragonhawk12: Fair enough, this is a pass for me. I currently have a nomination for "Señorita" up; you may leave comments there if you wish RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 21:03, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

I may be able to, but I have some reviews I’m working on at the moment that take priority. Thanks for the spot check! Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 21:07, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

UC

Will give this a look when I can. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:57, 4 November 2026 (UTC)

• with August 26 generally observed as her birth date: I think this is a matter of phrasing rather than substance, but I'm not wild about "generally observed". We mean that the aquarium (fairly arbitrarily) decided to consider this her birthdate. As it's a primary source, we need to keep within the letter of WP:PRIMARY, which means we can't say anything about e.g. whether anyone else observed this date.

• Changed. Hopefully it's better. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• . She was euthanized on June 5, 2024, due to these conditions.: this doesn't fit the body or the source, which only have "age-related health conditions": they don't draw a specific link to the eyesight or the heart issue.

• I'm not sure what you mean by this. I assume you mean in the lead, but right before this sentence the lead says "As she grew older, Rosa's eyesight started to fail and she contracted a heart condition". Later, in the body, it says "Late in her life, Rosa was fatigued by a heart condition and limited eyesight." with the source saying "Rosa is slowed by a heart condition and very limited eyesight". I changed the sentence to mention "health conditions" if that's what you meant. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

My issue is that the phrase "these conditions" in the lead has the antecedent of "Rosa's eyesight started to fail and she contracted a heart condition", which is specific about which age-related conditions were the proximate cause of her euthanasia. The source isn't so specific: it just says that the decision was taken based on the age-related health conditions she had. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:54, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Changed to "because of her health conditions" instead of "these conditions". Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 16:54, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• she continued to interact with humans, posing a risk to herself and others: "others" is "humans" in the body, which I think is better: this sounds like it might mean "other otters".

• Changed to "other humans". Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• She was kept with a pool of 1,000–5,000 U.S. gallons (3,800–18,900 L) of seawater between 44–54 °F (7–12 °C), the quality of which is regularly checked by aquarium staff. : this sounds like the pool was put there for Rosa. Suggest "The exhibit contains..." instead of "She was kept with..."

• Done. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• sea otter camera: hyphen per MOS:HYPHEN. Ditto a sea otter recovery program ("sea-otter recovery program").

• Done. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• she did not have any biological pups of her own: this seems like we're saying the same thing twice.

• Done. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• Late in her life, Rosa was fatigued by a heart condition and limited eyesight: I can't see that the source supports "fatigued".

• The source says she was "slowed" by the heart condition. Do they not mean the same thing? Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Does it have the same language around limited eyesight, though? I'm not sure they're completely synonyms, but it's probably close enough here. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:55, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Changed to "Rosa contracted a heart condition and problems with her eyesight." Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 18:01, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• he threw an on-the-spot birthday livestream: what does "on-the-spot" mean here?

• It means "impromptu", but the source says that and I don't want to plagiarize it. Changed to "spontaneous". Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

As a general point, remember that it's not enough to simply swap the words in a source for synonyms -- we need to make sure that the more fundamental framing and structure are original to Wikipedia, rather than being lifted from our sources. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:56, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Changed to "he hosted a livestream to celebrate her birthday". Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 18:03, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• Wreden and his community raised $320 in 2019; $2,670 in 2020; $14,100 in 2021;[‡ 7] $104,000 in 2022;[16] $300,000 in 2023;[6] $620,000 in 2024;[17] and $565,800 in 2025: are all of these numbers really WP:DUE, especially given that the only source is Wreden himself?

• You know what, ur right. This single paragraph uses the most primary sources, and it's not really needed. I've removed it for now. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• these last few years fundraisers have been a huge amount of work: years', surely? Perhaps a case for MOS:CONFORM.

• Done. If not this, I could add a [sic] if needed in the future. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• Do we have a source for for major figures who died in 2024?

• Closest I could find was the NYT saying "The New York Times Magazine remembers some of the artists, innovators and thinkers we lost in the past year", but that doesn't really confirm it. I've removed it for now. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

• The template documentation says that cause of death should only be given if it is specifically notable. I'm not sure this is.
• The infobox gives Rosa Martin's full name, but the article itself doesn't. We also don't technically have a source for Rosa's sex or species at all; this could be easily solved with something like "Rosa was a female sea otter (Enhydra lutris) born in..."

• Removed the cause of death and naming, but added sources to sex and species. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:43, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

I see Rosa Martin is now gone from the infobox -- what was the thinking there? It would seem straightforward to find a Steinbeck book that gives her surname and to add the citation, and there seemed to be some value in explaining the origin of our Rosa's name. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:57, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Do you want me to cite Tortilla Flat itself? Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 19:06, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

You'd be on better ground with a secondary source that names the characters, but if there's only one Rosa in the book, it would probably do under WP:PRIMARY. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:22, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

I added simply "Named After: Character from Tortilla Flat" in the article. I couldn't find a source that could reference her name, and all the sources the article cites doesn't mention Rosa Martin. I didn't really want to cite the book because I don't think it's necessary. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 01:34, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

I didn't really want to cite the book because I don't think it's necessary: I'm not sure I'm following. "Unnecessary" means that there's a good alternative, usually: it sounds like you haven't been able to find one? Since the WP:FACR require that an article neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context, I think it's reasonably important to be able to answer the question "which character"? If we were told that an aardvark called "John" was named after a character in the works of Arthur Conan Doyle, we would want to be able to tell readers which character we were talking about.

At any rate, searching "Tortilla Flat Rosa Martin" into Google Books gives you plenty of hits that you could use for a footnote to the effect of "For the character's second name, see ...", and perhaps a very brief explanation of who the character actually is. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:34, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

I should be able to get to that later today. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 15:47, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

I looked through Google Scholar, JSTOR, and the rest of the Wikipedia Library, but no sources mention who she is as a character. They only mention Rosa Martin's name. Should I just cite the book? Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 01:58, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

This book, p. 70, has her name, her ethnicity (Portuguese), and some (rather unflattering) details of Steinbeck's characterisation. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 07:55, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Should I add something like this?:

Character from Tortilla Flat[a]

[a]: Named after Rosa Martin, a character depicted as a Portuguese woman who is "filthy, lazy, and sexually promiscuous"[1]. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 19:26, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

If you decide to use the quotation, you'll need to attribute it in-text. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 19:57, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Should I just put what I would have put in a footnote into the infobox? Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 23:23, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

The requirement that I raised under the WP:FACR is for the article to be comprehensive -- that is, for it to contain all the important information a reader will need. The micro-scale decisions of how that information is presented are up to you as the writer and nominator. If there's a real problem with one of them -- for example, that it breaks the WP:MOS or is unclear to readers -- then you can expect somebody to raise it here; otherwise, it's best to WP:BEBOLD. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:43, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

Done. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:45, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

I believe Rosa Martin's personality isn't needed. I don't think a reader needs to know who Rosa Martin is as a character when they just want to know the character Rosa the sea otter was based off. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:46, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 19:12, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

Everything you brought up should be fixed. Since the "Death" section became really short, I merged it with "Life at Monterey Bay Aquarium" to make "Later life and death". Also moved naming down to that section. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:44, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

1brianm7

This was the first article I reviewed at GAN. I'll give it another go-around once some other people have gotten their thoughts in. 1brianm7 (talk) 05:12, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Not-cheesewhisk3rs

I'll take a look when everyone else is done. --not-cheesewhisk3rs ≽^•⩊•^≼ ∫ (pester • FAC) 09:08, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• @ThaesOfereode: Great to have you returning with another of his literature articles to FAC. Comments to follow. MSincccc (talk) 17:12, 1 November 2026 (UTC)
  • @MSincccc: Thanks for dropping by to take a look at this. Responses bellow. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:58, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

Background

• "Shaw even gave several suggestions as to topic and theme, but Chesterton did not adapt any of them." → "Shaw even gave several suggestions for topics and themes, but Chesterton did not adapt any of them."
  • Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:58, 2 November 2026 (UTC)
• both he and F. Anstey proffered an outline for a play based on a work of Belloc's
  • Do we have any alternative to "proffered" like "proposed" for general readers?
    • I think "proposed" works fine, if that works for you. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:58, 2 November 2026 (UTC)
• Ada Chesterton, his sister-in-law, reported that, although the concept for Magic...play down
  • Could we trim this sentence?
    • Sheesh, yes. Didn't realize how long that had gotten; done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:58, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 06:05, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

Premiere and run

• I'll return to the "Plot" later; proceeding with the "Premiere".
• "which contained a relatively small stage" → "which had a relatively small stage"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "Following the premiere, Chesterton arrived at his newspaper's office around 6 pm and left with his brother for a drink before dinner and the two were greeted by an enthusiastic crowd."
  • How about breaking the sentence after "6 pm" and including a new sentence starting with "He and his brother"?

• Works for me. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "Chesterton was notoriously bad with his finances and Shaw sought to protect the success of Chesterton's work from his poor financial management." → "Chesterton was notoriously bad with money, and Shaw sought to protect the success of his work from his poor financial management."

• Done, except kept "his money" for flow. Can take out if you feel strongly. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 18:37, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

Reception and influence

• "Shaw wrote resounding praise for the play, more than any other critic." → "Shaw praised the play more enthusiastically than any other critic."

• Great idea; done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "because it is hard to discern the authorial belief" → "because it is hard to discern the author's belief"

• Decided just to unpipe this one. Can change back if you feel strongly. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "...Bergman met with critical success and was praised for using visually imaginative design, such as using dimmed lighting"
  • Could we avoid repeating "using"?

• Sure can. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "However, the play struggled due to its double-feature composition, being overshadowed by the popularity of Thornton Wilder's one-act play The Long Christmas Dinner."
  • Could we rephrase this sentence to make its meaning clearer?

• How does it look now? ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc (talk) 13:05, 4 November 2026 (UTC)

@MSincccc: All done with the above. ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:04, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Plot

• "Morris, a successful but novice businessman, arrives from the United States"
  • How about "inexperienced" in place of "novice"?
    • Inexperienced gives me the impression that he's not successful, whereas novice seems more just "new but doing alright", which I think is the subtext we're supposed to get from it; he's said to be managing several ore mines in Arizona. I suppose "nascent" would also work, if you prefer that. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2026 (UTC)
• "Patricia enters and the two equivocate over the concept of truth, leaving her less angry with him."
  • I haven't seen the play. Did the two use ambiguous language as "equivocate" suggests?

• At the risk of editorializing, the Conjurer is not really saying anything substantive other than speaking parabolically about the growth of the relationship between him and Patricia. Certainly, they do not speak directly about truth in the way that Grimthorpe and Smith directly debate religion. The dialog mostly serves to show the Conjurer's wit, get Patricia back on his side for the latter half of the play, and foreshadow the twist. If you're interested, there is a link to a performance of the play in "External links" if you want to make your own judgement about it; this dialog takes place between 32:08 and 38:18. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Lead

• "the brother begins to go insane" → "the latter begins to go insane"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "to divulge how the tricks were done in the hopes of curing him of his madness" → "to reveal how he performed the tricks, hoping to cure the brother of his madness"

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• "received positive reviews from audiences" → "was well received by audiences"
  • Audience generally view a performance rather than review it.

• Good point. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

• @ThaesOfereode: That's all from me. I look forward to your response. MSincccc (talk) 14:17, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• @MSincccc: Everything should be addressed above. Thanks again for taking a look at this. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:06, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks again for a fine literature article at FAC. Happy to support the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 16:46, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Image review

• Why does the multi-image in Reception use blank link parameters?

• Removed, I think. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

• File:Ingmar_Bergman_1953_(cropped).jpg needs a US tag, and per the Finland tag, "Please provide where the image was first published"

• Couldn't figure it out. Swapped it with a crop of an image released by the Dutch National Archives. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

• File:Portrait_of_Chesterton_Sitting.jpg: per the UK tag, "please specify in the image description the research you have carried out to find who the author was"

• "User attempted to ascertain original photographer by reading the book itself (including front and back matter) and performing a reverse image search to seek information about origins on various image websites. None of these attempts were successful in identifying the original photographer." Does this need to be added to the Commons page too or is this a "per use" kind of thing? ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

• It needs to be on the Commons page. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:43, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:14, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• File:Magia_di_Chesterton,_I_ed.jpeg needs a US tag

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

• File:G.B._Shaw_Portrait_(cropped).jpg: when and where was this first published? Ditto File:G.K._Chesterton_LCCN2014686602_(cropped).jpg, File:Shaw,_Belloc_e_Chesterton.jpg

1. Bain News Agency (US) in 1909.
2. Bain News Agency (US) in 1915.
3. Unknown original publication but the image was taken in London in 1927. I went to several different image sites to find the original photographer, but I could not ascertain who took the photo. I have added the same tag as File:Portrait_of_Chesterton_Sitting.jpg and use the same rationale. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

1. Are you certain the first two of these are publication dates? The source seems to say creation.

• My understanding is that the LoC has vetted these images as having no known copyright restrictions. These two images belong to a collection (the George Grantham Bain Collection) with its own PD tag on the Commons. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:14, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

1. On the last, still missing where and when this was first published, and as above the description should include detail on research to attempt to identify author. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:43, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

• Got an unexpected lead. Updated. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:14, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

• File:John_butler_yeats,_ritratto_di_george_moore,_novelliere,_1905_(cropped).jpg needs tagging for the original work. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:02, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

• Yeats died in 1922. Tags fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:49, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

• What is the author's date of death, and when and where was this first published? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:43, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

• 1922, 1905, and R of Ireland then under UK administration. Tags added. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:14, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

ZKang123

I will check this out.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:08, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

Background:

• In 1908, he wrote a humorous letter to Chesterton, which reads in part: – Might shorten a little to: In a 1908 humorous letter to Chesterton, Shaw wrote in part:

• I think this wording is fine? ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Yeah it is tbh. I just felt initially I hope to make it sound more encyclopedic, but even my suggestion is a bit too oververbose.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:36, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• If Chesterton could do so, Shaw would retain the stage rights, but Chesterton would keep the copyright, the writing credits would not include any sign of input from Shaw, and Chesterton could buy the stage rights back for £250 (equivalent to £25,729 in 2025) whenever he wanted This sentence reads a bit long. Suggest splitting.

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Plot:

• Wikilink the first mention of "duke" here

• Was a little leery of linking in case the capital letter seemed to indicate the page for the character rather than the concept (per WP:EGG), but I can link if you think that's best. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• lambasts Smith for his unbelief Shouldn't it be "disbelief"?

• Unbelief is more specific to religious belief. Smith does disbelieve in the ghosts, but the Conjurer is clearly exposing his overall unbelief of the Christian God. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Premiere and run:

• Although Chesterton generally had an aversion to the telephone, he was reportedly so happy with the influx of congratulations and greetings he received following the play's opening night that he answered the phone himself, which his sister-in-law referred to as "extraordinary" Sentence is a bit too long, suggest splitting

• Fixed . ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• I note Chesterton is sometimes referred to as G. K., but was initially confused who Gilbert was. Might actually write in his first mention in the body back in the background that "Gilbert Keith Chesterton, more known as G. K. Chesterton"...

• Hm, good point. Fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• published a successful book version of the script How successful in terms of sales?

• Sadly not specified in the source: "Before the end of 1913 Putnam's Sons had published the play as a book and it sold well." ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Is it possible to search for newspaper archives about this? It's alright if otherwise you can't find out.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:36, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Shaw sought to protect the success of his work from his poor financial management I suppose "his" refers to Chesterton

• Yes, clarified. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• After seeing the contract Chesterton had agreed to for the play What does the contract refer to here?

• Presumably the staging contract, though neither source specifies. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• For the hundredth performance, Shaw's short play The Music Cure began to be featured as the curtain raiser following a promise Shaw made to Chesterton "if there should be [a hundredth] one", though The Music Cure was only performed seven time Sentence is quite complex here. Suggest rewrite

• Reworded. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Reception and influence:

• What does oeuvre mean

• According to Merriam-Webster: "a substantial body of work constituting the lifework of a writer, an artist, or a composer". "Bibliography" doesn't really work here (it might be prohibited?) and "work" is too vague; I also used it in another FA here. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Understood.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:36, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Lead:

• Is a reverend also a priest?

• It's a title for a priest, yes. I don't know its specific usage in the Church of England, which is presumably the priest's sect, but both terms are used by Chesterton for Smith's character. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• The young woman and the other characters – a wealthy duke, a family doctor, and a local priest – attempt to convince the conjurer to reveal how he performed the tricks in the hopes of curing the brother of his madness. A bit of a long and complex sentence here.

• I think this one's okay; I played around and couldn't quite get anything that really worked as well. If it's alright, I'd like to keep it as is. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• Will leave as such then.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:36, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Critical reviews were similarly positive, praising Chesterton's choice to use colour instead of music for dramatic effect and his ability to create an atmosphere that evoked evil throughout the play. Similar here

• Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

• The play was successful and published by the end of the year, though Chesterton himself saw little of the profits Might add it was published as a book, and maybe a mention of his financial mismanagement or the contract.

• Good call. Done. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

That's all my comments. Quite a well-written article.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 02:24, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

@ZKang123: Thanks for taking the time to review this and for the kind words about my writing. I've responded above. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:33, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Support.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:36, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Noleander

• And ... ? "The executive expressed interest in buying the film rights for the play for £4,000 ..." Well, did he accept the 4,000? And did the film get made or not?

• Source unfortunately does not provide an answer here. It doesn't appear a film was ever made, as far as I can tell. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Stagings after 1935? ". During the First World War, James Joyce chose Magic as one of the first plays to be performed in his English-language theatre company in Zurich.[46] ... Richards staged Magic at the Gate Theatre in Dublin in 1935." Can the article state how much it was staged after 1935 (e.g. any stagings in major cities)? Alternatively, if it is not staged very often, say so.

• I'm not sure we have that kind of granularity about this play. It is mostly a footnote within the larger Chestertonian oeuvre (his book Orthodoxy is a vital article on WP). The only notable post-1935 staging I could identify was Bergman's 1947 production. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Image is crooked at top of article: File:Magia di Chesterton, I ed.jpeg. Not a good first impression for a Featured Article. Can you find a straight version? Or create a straightened image in Commons? If you don't know how, let me know and I can do it.

• I think this is fixed with the newer, higher quality image, but if you still think it's a little too crooked, feel free to correct. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Non sequitur? "... Chesterton himself saw little of the profits, only receiving money from one of the backers. " and " ... Chesterton received compensation for the play from only one of the backers," Not sure how "small profits" follows from "one backer". Most readers won't be familiar with the intricacies of UK theater business. Did other backers violate their contracts? Did they go broke? How much money did he receive?

• Chesterton was profoundly naive when it came to money. It's not clear the details, but Haynes's backing seems to have been more charity than due recompense. The contract's contents are basically unknown except that it incensed Shaw (which is implied to mean that others made a lot when Chesterton made nearly nothing) and Ada Chesterton notes that he made nearly nothing despite the play's success, both of which are expected given Chesterton's other less-than-excellent business decisions. Aside from these details, nothing else turned up in my research. It seems unlikely to me that the other backers violated the contract or went broke, given the context in which we can surmise the content of the contract and the relative success of the play, respectively. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Plot point missing: " When the group asks what the lie is, the Conjurer refuses to tell them because if he does, they will all choose to believe it instead of coming to grips with the idea that magic is real. The plan works and Morris becomes well again." Readers will want to know what lie was told to Morris (alternatively: tell the reader if the lie is never revealed in the play). MOS:PLOT and WP:Spoiler say that WP articles on works of fiction should describe all major plot points and twists, and should not withhold spoilers.

• Hm, I though that the secret is not revealed is clear from context. I think what I've done might fix the issue? ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Wording "The plot centres on the conflict between a conjurer, a young woman who believes he is really magic..." That doesn't sound correct to my US ears. Is that a UK wording? Even if that is valid UK usage, many readers around the world will get confused, so consider a wording that is more universal such as "... he is really magical ..." or "... his magic is real ..."

• Hm, interesting. I'm a native US (INAE) speaker (who used UK Eng here per WP:TIES). For me, "he really is magical" seems more like "he's really nice" rather than "he has supernatural powers", which might explain why I chose that wording. Reworded, in any event. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Wording - very hard to parse: "Chesterton dedicated a chapter in his book Heretics against some of Moore's beliefs called "The Moods of Mr. George Moore" What is "against" what? Is "The Moods..." the name of the chapter or the name of the book. Can that be re-written? Put yourself in the shoes of naive readers and word things in a way they can all understand.

• Should be parsed "Chesterton dedicated a chapter called 'The Moods of Mr. George Moore' against Moore's beliefs"; the book is italicized and the chapter is quoted as per the MOS. Reworded in any event. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Wording: "She asks again how the trick was done. Somewhat defensively, he explains that he used to fake tricks and ..." Some readers, especially ESL, may get confused by the word "used" in that sentence, thinking it is leading into a phrase like "...explains that he used props .." or similar. Consider re-wording so such readers don't get confused. E.g. "... explains that he faked tricks in the past and .. " or similar.

• Fair enough. Fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Braybrooke 1926, p. 76–78. P/PP error? p. 76–78

• Great catch; fixed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• Reprint vs original: Harris, Frank (1920). Contemporary Portraits. Vol. 3. Frank Harris. ISBN 978-0-8371-2577-0. Books in 1920 didnt have ISBNs, so the ISBN must refer to a reprint or later edition. The cite should identify the book the editor consulted when researching the article, so if the book you read had the ISBN, it was a reprint/new edition, and that year should be used in the cite (and 1920 can still be in the cite using the "orig-year" field)

• Original. ISBN removed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• That is all for now. Ping me when the above have been considered. Noleander (talk) 11:54, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

• @Noleander: Thanks for taking a look at this. I think everything above has been addressed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:13, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Icepinner

This seems like a very interesting subject – I find it rather odd that a boy's death generated so much spiritual interpretation. Comments to come in the next few days. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:12, 28 October 2026 (UTC)

• "whose death in Dornach, Switzerland, at the age of seven," remove "at the age of seven" bit? I think it's redundant considering his dates of birth and death are stated

• Done. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:38, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

• Maybe also mention in the lead the burning of the Goetheanum and why Faiss's spirit failed to protect it? Or would that be UNDUE...?

• Done. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:11, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

• "Arno was born during the return trip" this seems irrelevant to me, considering that the article is supposed to be on Theo Faiss.

• It's not the most relevant information in the article, to be sure, but it's interesting. It highlights the stresses of undertaking such a journey back them—no way to jump on a plane and get there in a matter of hours. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:32, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough, I suppose. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:24, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

• "brother's family in Oldenburg" consider linking Oldenburg (city)?

• Done. I had originally not done this because there is both Oldenburg (city) and Oldenburg (district), and the source just says "Oldenburg". But the district (per the article) has several towns and municipalities, so it seems more likely that the source would have named one of those if in fact the family lived there. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:43, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

Ah, I was not aware of this. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:24, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

• "below the grounds of the Goetheanum" consider linking the Goetheanum. Perhaps also mention here that the Goetheanum was then under construction? I was under the impression that the Goetheanum was completed during that time, so when I read "the artist Käthe Knetsch, who worked on the Goetheanum", I thought it was a grammatical error.

• Done on both counts. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:18, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

• "he said then, highlighted 'how karma and seemingly external coincidence are connected'" link karma? I'm not too fussy on this

• Done. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:46, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

• "In June, during the twelfth lecture from his fifteen-lecture series The Mystery of Death, for example, Steiner declared that..." this seems a bit clunky to me. How about "For example, during the twelfth lecture from his fifteen-lecture series The Mystery of Death in June, Steiner declared that..."?

• I think the issue was that the sentence was trying to do too much. I've split it in two: In June, for example, Steiner delivered the twelfth of fifteen lectures in the series The Mystery of Death. Steiner declared in the lecture that "since the death of little Theodor Faiss the work has been made possible for me through the mediating forces for inspirations that have been made available by this boy's etheric body which has been enveloping the building".

Good fix! Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:24, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

• "The interpretation relies on Steiner's belief that humans form and develop in seven-year cycles: forming an etheric body over the first seven years, an astral body from seven to fourteen, and the remainder of one's terrestrial being from fourteen to twenty-one.[80][81][82][83][84]" is there a reason the article cites five sources for this sentence?

• It's two from von Halle explaining her theory (a book, plus a shorter article that's available online), two from Steiner explaining the concept, and an English translation of one of the latter two. I'll bundle the original/translation cites (which I ended up doing in In Memory of Theo Faiss), which will at least bring us down to four here. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:18, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

• Is there a reason why Maryon created In Memory of Theo Faiss, especially since it was created seven years after Faiss's death?

• The seven-year gap is somewhat odd. I would normally expect such a memorial to be created shortly after death, not years later. Also, much as Steiner frequently mentioned Faiss, he seems to have stopped in 1916—five years before the relief. And there is there is no surviving (or at least published) record of the relief other than its mere existence, so the reason for the seven-year gap is speculation. With that said, Maryon created a number of reliefs of people connected with anthroposophy around this time, so it's possible it was a continuation of that effort. I also find von Halle's theory to be interesting. Although she assigns her theory too much certainty (and I find her unconvincing when she says the man at the bottom left of the first version is Steiner), it would explain the seven-year gap between death and creation. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:56, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

I see. The seven-year gap continues to be a mystery, but not an opposition from me. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:24, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

• I also wonder why the second version of the relief is displayed, considering the first version has more discussion in the article. Maybe the second version ties into von Halle's analysis?

• Mostly because the photo is better. I've changed it so both are now displayed. --Usernameunique (talk) 15:54, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

That's all from me. An excellent article. Ping me when you've addressed my comments, Usernameunique. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 14:01, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

Thanks much for the review, Icepinner. Responses above. As you say, it is interesting that so much significance was assigned to his death. It would be easy enough to dismiss it as the comforting trope of "God needed another angel"—essentially what Steiner told the mother on the night it happened. But Steiner continued to invoke him for years, and he continues to be remembered today (if in very niche circles). Part of it likely has to do with the Dornach anthroposophical community being small and close-knit. And what with Faiss and then his father, that must have been an extraordinarily difficult time for the family. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:22, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

No problem. I gladly support this nomination on prose. Icepinner (Come to Hakurei Shrine!) 17:24, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

Thanks again, Icepinner. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:21, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

SchroCat

• Support, per my review in the first nom. - SchroCat (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks, SchroCat. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2026 (UTC)

Source and image review

Is it just me, or is nearly all of this sauced to dependent sources? I know that young Theo draws his notability entirely from the anthroposophy movement but it's a bit much. I must admit that I struggle to read the plaster reliefs so I'll just AGF on the ALT text. Everything else seems fine. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:01, 31 October 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus. We had the same discussion regarding the sources during the review of the relief. I would say that the sources tend to believe in anthroposophy, but are still independent of the subject (Faiss), just as a modern Christian writer discussing Jesus would be independent of him. --Usernameunique (talk) 16:51, 31 October 2026 (UTC)

Image review

I'll do an image review. Given that there are quite a number of them, I might review them in two or three lots. I'll hopefully have a look at the first lot tonight. TarnishedPath^talk 06:22, 28 October 2026 (UTC)

• File:TfNSW L1.svg - Public Domain
• File:A tram (15860847401).jpg - CC BY 2.0
• File:Metro Monorail Convention.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:Dulwich Hill 24-02-10 (4833721233).jpg - CC BY-SA 2.0
• File:Arlington light rail stop 2013-08-07.JPG - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:Taverners Hill Light Rail Parramatta Road.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Lilyfield light rail maintenance centre 20171028 01.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• All of the images above have alt-text for accessibility, are relevant to the article, and have proper captioning.

More to come tomorrow. TarnishedPath^talk 10:31, 28 October 2026 (UTC)

• File:John Street Square L1 station, Pyrmont.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Tunnel entrance at Glebe station.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Jubilee Park Viaduct (cropped).jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Lilyfield Maintenance Centre (cropped).jpg - CC BY 4.0
• All of the images above have alt-text for accessibility, are relevant to the article, and have proper captioning. However, the manner of their placement in the article has resulted in three of them falling beside a table for the 'Stops' section. I'm not sure how I feel about that. This may possible display better if the four images were in a gallery, either at the top or the bottom of the 'Route' section. More to come tomorrow. TarnishedPath^talk 09:06, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

  I did place them like that on purpose, because to me, the table is narrow enough that those images can fit. If it doesn't work well on other screens, I could try using Template:Multiple image. Steelkamp (talk) 09:13, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

  Yeah, I thought there was a potential that you placed them in that manner on purpose. The minor issue I'm seeing is that means that some of the images are separated from the section which they pertain to. It might stand out to me more than others as I'm on a 34" screen. TarnishedPath^talk 09:45, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

  Good point on the "images are separated from the section which they pertain to". I've placed the four images in that section in a Template:Multiple images. Steelkamp (talk) 04:01, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

  Ah, that is much more pleasing to my peepers. TarnishedPath^talk 08:19, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

• File:Central light rail station.JPG - CC0
• File:SLR 2114, Capitol Square, 2018 (01).jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:PaddysMarketStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:ExhibitionStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:ConventionStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Pyrmont Bay Stop, June 2024.jpg - CC0
• File:The Star Stop, June 2024 05.jpg - CC0
• File:JohnStreetSquareStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:FishMarketStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Wentworth Park light rail stop, Sydney, 2026, 03.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• All of the images above have alt-text for accessibility, are relevant to the article, and have proper captioning. I'll finish the rest of the table in the stops section later on tonight. TarnishedPath^talk 08:45, 30 October 2026 (UTC)
• File:GlebeStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Jubilee Park 20171129 03.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:Rozelle Bay light rail stop 20171028 02.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:Lilyfield light rail stop view from bridge March 2017.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:Leichhardt North light rail station, Sydney.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:HawthorneStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Marion light rail station, Sydney.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:Taverners Hill Stop, June 2024 01.jpg - CC0
• File:LewishamWestStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:WaratahMillsStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:Arlington Stop, June 2024 03.jpg - CC0
• File:Urbos 2 at Dulwich Grove Stop Inner West Light Rail Extension.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:DulwichHillStop.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• All of the images above have alt-text for accessibility, are relevant to the article, and have proper captioning. That's all of the images from the 'Stops' section reviewed. I'll review the remainder of the images in the article tomorrow night. I noted that a lot of the images in the stop section were taken by Steelkamp. They've really taken some effort with this. TarnishedPath^talk 10:43, 30 October 2026 (UTC)
• File:Sydney Light Rail L1 Opal Card.jpg - CC BY-SA 4.0
• File:MLR - panoramio.jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0
• File:CAF Urbos 2 tram, operated by Transdev, at Central Station (2).jpg - CC BY-SA 3.0 au
• File:Sydney's light rail - Urbos 3.jpg - CC0
• All of the images above have alt-text for accessibility, are relevant to the article, and have proper captioning.
• Pass TarnishedPath^talk 07:41, 31 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments by ChrisTheDude

• "Headways reach as low as six minutes during peak periods" - not heard the term "headways" before - is this an Aussie term for "frequency of service"?
  • Apparently there's a Wikipedia article on the topic. Don't think its an Aussie term. Just means the time between each vehicle. Frequency would be the number of vehicles per hour, so a slightly different but related term.
    • Every day's a school day . Maybe link that article on first use in the lead and body -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:05, 29 October 2026 (UTC)
      • Done. Steelkamp (talk) 09:12, 29 October 2026 (UTC)
• "TNT proposed a monorail" - write that name out in full with the abbreviation in brackets
  • Done.
• "From Pyrmont, The proposed light rail line" - no reason for capital T there
  • Fixed.
• "The line was intended to support the redevelopment of Pyrmont and Ultimo and serving attractions" => "The line was intended to support the redevelopment of Pyrmont and Ultimo and serve attractions"
  • Done.
• "The light rail corridor at the Arlington light rail stop before (February 2010) and during construction (August 2013)." - this image caption is not a sentence so it should not have a full stop
  • Done.
• Note d does not need a full stop
  • Done.
• That's all I got - great work! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 29 October 2026 (UTC)
  • @ChrisTheDude: Thanks for the review, I've addressed each comment! Steelkamp (talk) 09:02, 29 October 2026 (UTC)
• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:59, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

Nick-D

The IWLR is probably my least-favourite form of transport in Sydney due to its meandering route, but it's good to see the article here. I'd like to offer the following comments:

• The 'history' section would benefit from a para on the former tram network, given that this line was the start of rebuilding something similar. For instance, it could be noted (if sources support it!) that the tram network was fairly dense in the parts of Sydney this line passes through.
  • I've had a go at adding one. What do you think?
• " announced that Darling Harbour would be redeveloped" - say where this is
  • Done with "which is immediately west of Sydney's central business district (CBD)."
• Bob Carr is linked twice
  • Fixed.
• Was there any discussion in the 1990s over the merits of building this along the former goods line rather than along streets? Re-using the goods line in this way had obvious advantages, but also downsides given that many of the stops are inconveniently located.
  • I found not much on this. I found the Glebe Society complaining about a lack of a station underneath Glebe Point Road. And here, the Glebe Society criticises that the route uses the goods line and not the historical tram routes. But I'm not sure we should include the opinion of a local advocacy group when I found nothing about this in the media such as the Sydney Morning Herald.
• There's a bit of repetition of terminology in the 'Extension to Lilyfield' section
  • I assume you are talking about things like "state government", which I have fixed.
• Is it possible to add a third photo to the interesting photos of the area near Arlington light rail stop to show what the finished product looks like?
  • There aren't any images on Commons showing that exact camera position and angle. Closest I found is this, but there is already an image of Arlington station in the station list.
• Don't repeat blow out and blown out in the same para.
  • Fixed.
• "Critics questioned the extension's cost and construction schedule" - I'd suggest being more specific about who these people were
  • Done.
• "The first phase of the CBD and South East Light Rail line opened in December 2019, providing an interchange with the Inner West Light Rail at Central station" - the two lines also have stops very close to one another in the CBD, as well as an intersection between the lines on the corner of Hay and George Streets that allows trams to swap from one to the other.
  • Done.
• Do any bus routes specifically connect with the light rail? There are obviously bus stops near lots of the light rail stops.
  • There are many routes that pass near light rail stops, but the line is not specifically set up with feeder bus services like many stations in Perth, for example, or like the CBD and South East Light Rail, which has a bus interchange at Juniors Kingsford and is designed to take buses off CBD streets.
• I'd suggest splitting the second para in the 'Rolling stock' section
  • Done.
• The sentence starting with "Similar cracking had appeared" is rather over-long and complex
  • i've split that sentence in two.
• Were bus services put on to replace the line after it was closed in 2021? At present they are noted only as part of what was done to restart the line in 2022. Nick-D (talk) 04:40, 1 November 2026 (UTC)
  • Yes, I've added that.

@Nick-D: Thanks for the review! I've responded to everything. Steelkamp (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2026 (UTC) 'Support My comments are now addressed. Nick-D (talk) 08:40, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

ZKang123

Gonna review this given I've done plenty of transit FACs before.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 06:18, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

Lead:

• Just curious, which is actually the official terminology? And I must guess "Inner West Light Rail" is the more common name?
  • Both names are used. L1 Dulwich Hill line is the more passenger facing name, such as on the timetable and network map, while the media often calls it the Inner West Light Rail ( ), and then ALTRAC says "The Inner West Light Rail (IWLR) line (also known as the L1 line)". And there was a requested move in 2020 to the current title.
    • To clarify a little more, why do official transport agencies still go by L1 Dulwich Hill line, and is it known how the latter terminology eventually came about? I read the move discussion and if I try to understand, the Inner West Light Rail is the physical line, but L1 Dulwich Hill is the service?--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:46, 5 November 2026 (UTC)
      • L1 Dulwich Hill Line is the name used for passenger facing information, such as timetables, maps and things. While Inner West Light Rail is used by sources such as the report on the tram cracks and ALTRAC. And both names are widely used interchangeably in the media. Weird situation with two widely used names. Steelkamp (talk) 08:40, 6 November 2026 (UTC)
        • I would then mention both names in the description section.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 04:07, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
          • Done. Steelkamp (talk) 06:00, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
• A 3-kilometre (2 mi), four-stop extension to Lilyfield opened on 13 August 2000. Either keep "3-kilometre (2 mi)" or "four-stop" (preferably the distance to keep)
  • I think both are useful information to keep. If your concern is how this flows, I've reworded this a bit while keeping both figures.
• Following the closure of the remaining section of the goods line in 2009, planning commenced for an extension to Dulwich Hill. Maybe Following the goods line's closure in 2009, planning began for an extension to Dulwich Hill.?
  • I think its important to keep the context that it was the remaining section of the line to close because sections closed before.
• In 2012, the state government acquired Metro Transport Sydney, the line's private operator Sydney Light Rail Company was mentioned earlier and similarly wikilinked. Might rewrite In 2012, the state government acquired Metro Transport Sydney, which succeeded Sydney Light Rail Company as the line's private operator, and construction of the extension began soon thereafter.
  • OR for this sentence: In 1994, the Sydney Light Rail Company was awarded a contract to build and operate the line for 30.5 years., mention that the Company was subsequently succeeded by Metro Transport Sydney. E.g. In 1994, the Sydney Light Rail Company, which later became Metro Transport Sydney, was awarded a contract to build and operate the line for 30.5 years. And then just delete the line's private operator
    • I've gone with "In 2012, the state government acquired the line's operator, by then known as Metro Transport Sydney...".
• The nine-stop, 5.5-kilometre (3.4 mi) extension opened on 27 March 2014. Similar comment earlier. Either keep the distance or stops.
  • As before, I've reworded this a bit while keeping both figures.
• The line initially operated with seven Adtranz Variotram vehicles. From 2014, twelve CAF Urbos 3 trams were introduced, which allowed for the withdrawal of the Variotrams from service. Four additional Urbos 3 trams were ordered in 2021. Personal preference, but might shorten it further to: The line initially operated with seven Adtranz Variotram vehicles. These were replaced by twelve CAF Urbos 3 trams, which entered service from 2014. Four additional Urbos 3 trams were ordered in 2021. Also for clarification - when did the four additional urbos enter service? Like you said "ordered in 2021". And are the Alstom Citadis trams still in service?
  • I've reworded as suggested, and added that they entered service in 2023 as per the rolling stock section. And yes, ever since the works to allow the simultaneous running of Citadis and Urbos trams, both trams have run on the Inner West Light Rail.

History:

• The rise of containerised freight and the shift of shipping to Port Botany led to a decline in use of the goods line from the 1970s, leading to the Darling Harbour line's closure in 1984 and the planned closure of the line from Darling Harbour to Rozelle Bay starting in the 1990s. Suggest rewrite to: The growth of containerised freight and the relocation of shipping operations to Port Botany led to a decline in goods line traffic from the 1970s. The Darling Harbour line closed in 1984, while the section between Darling Harbour and Rozelle Bay was earmarked for closure from the 1990s.
  • Done.
• Sydney formerly had an extensive tram network, which reached a peak of 292 kilometres (181 mi) in 1923 Might rewrite the latter clause to: , which spanned 292 kilometres (181 mi) at its peak in 1923
  • Done.
• Tram routes were progressively withdrawn following the peak, with the last trams running in 1961. Personally I find "Tram routes were progressively withdrawn following the peak" rather redundant. Might rewrite: Tram services ceased in 1961, following the gradual withdrawal of routes.
  • Done.
• Thomas Nationwide Transport (TNT) proposed a monorail, while Transfield and Comeng proposed a light rail line. Might substitute "proposed": in the later clause to "advocated"
  • I don't think advocated is quite the right word, so I've gone with "put forward".
• Wikilink monorail and light rail
  • Done.
• For the subsequent sentence, might rewrite: The latter project [or simply the proposed light rail line) would have crossed Pyrmont Bridge from Pyrmont before branching towards Central station and Circular Quay, via Hickson Road and Sussex Street
  • TBH i don't think this is an improvement.
    • It's more because I'm trying to avoid repetition of "light rail project" and starting with a propositional phrase is a bit awkward for me.
• The National Trust, public transport advocates, environmental groups, and the minister for planning and environment, Bob Carr, supported the light rail proposal, but the minister for public works, Laurie Brereton, supported the monorail. Might rewrite: The light rail proposal received support from the National Trust, public transport advocates, environmental groups and Bob Carr, the minister for planning and environment, while the minister for public works, Laurie Brereton, favoured the monorail.
  • Done.
• Following the redevelopment of Darling Harbour, the government proposed to redevelop the wider Pyrmont area, a former industrial area to the west of the CBD "redevelopment" seems repetitive. I wonder if Following the redevelopment of Darling Harbour, the government proposed a wider urban renewal programme for Pyrmont, a former industrial area west of the CBD. would be better, although "wider urban renewal programme" might drift from the sources
  • Done.
• In 1992, the state and federal governments reached an agreement under the federal government's Building Better Cities program to redevelop the Ultimo–Pyrmont area. As part of the agreement, the state and federal governments would fund a light rail line from Central station to Pyrmont via Ultimo, using the goods line as a right of way. The line was intended to support the redevelopment of Pyrmont and Ultimo and serve attractions including the Sydney Entertainment Centre, Darling Harbour, the Powerhouse Museum, the Australian National Maritime Museum, the Sydney Fish Market, and the future Star Casino.[ Also a bit repetitive. Might rewrite to:
  • In 1992, the state and federal governments agreed to redevelop the Ultimo–Pyrmont area under the federal government's Building Better Cities programme. The agreement included funding for a light rail line from Central station to Pyrmont via Ultimo, using the former goods line as its right of way. The line was intended to support the area's redevelopment and provide access to major attractions, including the...
    • Done.
  • Also wikilink Right of way
    • Done.
• Wikilink expressions of interest, though I might prefer Invitation to tender. However, if the former is the widely accepted and typical Australian term, I don't mind keeping as such.
  • Yes, it is a widely used term, and its what the source uses, so I'm using it here. And apparently expression of interest redirects to invitation to tender anyway.
    • Yeah just wikilink to expression of interest.
• nine consortia submitted expressions of interest Might rewrite: attracting nine consortia, four of which were shortlisted in November. Year is also redundant.
  • Done.
• A ceremony to mark the start of construction took place on 25 January. Might rewrite to: A groundbreaking ceremony was held on 25 January. Also any further details on the ceremony, like whether the transport minister was present or anything?
  • Done, and yes, I've added the two ministers who were present.
• Premier Bob Carr I suppose "Premier" refers to the NSW Premier, which in this case I would wikilink to the title and state this is Premier of the NSW.
  • Done.
• Full service commenced the following day, which included headways as low as 5 1⁄2 minutes during peak hour and a service span of 6 am to midnight Might rewrite: Full service began the following day, with peak-hour headways of up to 5½ minutes and operating hours from 6 am to midnight.
  • Done, except I think its correct to say headways were as low as 5½ minutes instead of up to.
    • I personally thought "up to" means to the best quantity, but this is ok I guess.
• which led to the integration of the monorail's ticketing, maintenance, marketing and management with that of the light rail Rewrite: which resulted in the integration of the monorail's ticketing, maintenance, marketing and management with the light rail system.
  • Done.
• At this point the light rail line doesn't have a formal name?
  • It was Sydney's only light rail line at the time, and there were various names used by sources at the time, such as Sydney light rail or Metro Light Rail or Pyrmont Light Rail or simply the light rail.

Will continue reviewing the history section. Personally, I'm a bit concerned with the prose quality, which tends to have some repetition of certain terms. Ofc in some cases it might be due to ENGVAR, but some bits tend to be a little unencyclopedic, like "reached a peak of 292 kilometres (181 mi)".--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 09:34, 4 November 2026 (UTC)

History (continued):

• I actually think given the "Extension to Lilyfield" subsection could be merged into the previous section given it's just one paragraph. Or if you prefer, you can merge both "Extension to Lilyfield" and "Extension to Dulwich Hill" under "Extensions"
  • I prefer the current set up, with each segment placed in its own section. It makes it easy to see at a glance which paragraphs are about which extensions.
    • I still prefer combining the sections, but other than that, both sections now read better.
• An August 1995 feasibility study found that extending the line from Wentworth Park to Marion was viable. Might rewrite: An August 1995 feasibility study confirmed/determined the viability of extending the line from Wentworth Park to Marion.
  • Honestly I like the current wording better. "determined the viability" doesn't actually say the study found it was viable.
• In May 1997, State Cabinet Should it be "the State Cabinet"? (and wikilink the incumbent State Cabinet at the time?)
  • Done.
• An environmental impact statement Wonder if there's any details from the environmental impact, like are there any realignments? And who did the environmental impact?
  • The EIS was done by Manidis Roberts Consultants, although I don't think that's worth mentioning. And what do you mean by realignments?
    • One recent EIA in my country led to a few slight adjustments in the alignment and station locations. So I'm wondering if this EIA would have made such proposals.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 04:07, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
      • I see. That did not happen in this case. The alignment just follows the goods railway, Steelkamp (talk) 06:00, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
• the government approved the 3-kilometre (2 mi), $20 million extension to Lilyfield, contributing $16 million, with the SLRC financing the remaining $4 million. Would split into: the government approved the 3-kilometre (2 mi) extension to Lilyfield and would contribute $16 million (to the project). The SLRC would finance the remaining $4 million. I think the budget math is obvious
  • Done, with slightly different wording.
• A decision on the proposed CBD extension was deferred because businesses in the CBD were opposed to the disruption that construction would bring Might rewrite: A decision on the proposed CBD extension was deferred amid businesses' opposition to potential construction(-related) disruption.
  • Done, with slightly different wording.
• The extension opened on time on 13 August 2000 Like, there was an expected date of completion? Might state the proposed timeline earlier.
  • Done. I've found that the August deadline was mentioned when construction began.
• The 1995 feasibility study for the extension to Lilyfield said that a future extension to Dulwich Hill station was possible, Okay, this is already repeating the earlier information. In fact, if you merge these two subsections, I would simply mention both proposals at the start of the subsections. (e.g. "Other extensions proposed included one to Dulwich Hill station, or a station on the Main Suburban railway line.")
  • Done.
• Following Kristina Keneally becoming the premier of New South Wales in late 2009, she cancelled plans to build a Sydney Metro in February 2010. Extensions of the Inner West line at both ends, to Dulwich Hill station and through the CBD to Circular Quay, were announced as some of the projects that would be built instead of the metro Might rewrite: After Kristina Keneally became premier of New South Wales in late 2009, she cancelled the proposed Sydney Metro in February 2010. Instead, she (or the NSW government) announced extensions of the Inner West line to Dulwich Hill station and through the CBD to Circular Quay.
  • Done.
• There were two major impediments to the Dulwich Hill extension: a cost blowout and the BOOT contract. – Two major challenges to the Dulwich Hill extension were cost overruns and the BOOT contract
  • Done.
• but the cost of both the extension and the GreenWay – but the costs of the extension and the GreenWay Also, would split this clause from the former.
  • Done.
• had blown out I must guess this is an Australian term but it doesn't read as encyclopedic to me.
  • Fair enough, reworded.
• Also, is the complexity of the GreenWay construction also related to why the construction costs increased?
  • Berejiklian said that the original cost estimate of $120 million was "another classic case of Labor plucking figures and timeframes out of thin air", although that's a politically expedient explanation for the cost escalation which I don't think should be given on Wikipedia.
    • Would put this as a footnote, but I also don't mind the ommission.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 04:07, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
• The GreenWay had gone from costing $30 million to $37 million in 2011, and the light rail extension had gone from $120 million to $176 million. Rewrite to: By 2011, the GreenWay's estimated cost had risen from $30 million to $37 million, and that of the light rail extension from $120 million to $176 million.
  • Done.
• In September 2011, Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian cancelled the GreenWay to make up the budget shortfall, and postponed the completion of the extension by eighteen months to early 2014 Would rewrite: ...cancelled the GreenWay to address the budget shortfall and postponed the extension's completion by 18 months to early 2014. Also, is Gladys the NSW transport minister or the federal level? And I think the title should be decapitalised to keep it consistent or capitalise all per WP:JOBTITLES (as I see later for: "was opened on 27 March 2014 by Premier Barry O'Farrell and Transport Minister Berejiklian")
  • Rewritten as suggested. And clarified that she's the state's transport minister. And reworded to decapitalise transport minister, because "state Transport Minister" is a bit awkward. But its fine when its just "Transport Minister Berejiklian" as done later. TBH JOBTITLES is one of the most confusing guidelines on Wikipedia, but I'm pretty sure I've gotten it right in each instance here.
    • In my case I kinda decided to capitalise all, but I don't think it's necessary here unless someone points out.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 04:07, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
• In March 2012, the state government acquired MTS for $19.8 million, which the government said would make extending the light rail line easier. Might rewrite: ...for $19.8 million, a move it said would facilitate the light rail extension. Also, is it stated exactly how? I guess being under direct government control might help.
  • Done. And I've added "by simplifying contractual arrangements.".
• In May 2012, the design and construction contract for the 5.5-kilometre (3.4 mi) extension was awarded to John Holland I thought construction for the extension had already started? Also, later the passage mentioned concerns of the contract cost. How much is this contract?
  • Frustratingly the sources don't say the contract cost, but do say the project's overall cost, which was $176 million (mentioned earlier). So probably some significant proportion of that, if not all.
• I might reread the history section after reviewing the rest of the article when the changes are done/addressed.

Description:

• There are also the Glebe and Wentworth Park viaducts, which are brick arch viaducts that are 446.5 metres (1,465 ft) and 274 metres (899 ft) long respectively. They are the two longest brick viaducts in New South Wales. Might rewrite: The line also crosses the Glebe and Wentworth Park viaducts—two brick arch viaducts spanning 446.5 metres (1,465 ft) and 274 metres (899 ft) respectively. They are the longest brick viaducts in New South Wales.
  • Done.
• No other issues.

Will continue reviewing.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 01:46, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

Service:

• This might be more of a personal style, but usually I have a separate "infrastructure" section for rolling stock (you can see how I organise for Sengkang LRT line or Downtown Line). In fact, I might rename the "description" section to "infrastructure" and move the rolling stock subsection there. The "incidents" subsection could be moved to the history section.
  • Yes, i feel like this is up to personal preference. This is the same layout I've done for Mandurah line. The rationale is that the physical layout of the line and stops are given in the description section, and the service section is all about the operations of the line. I put the incidents section under the rolling stock section because they are closely related. (in fact, that section was originally part of the rolling stock section when I was writing this article, until the incidents got too big).
• Despite this earlier assessment Ref 83 doesn't mention the Herald's report at all. It's a bit of WP:SYNTH to add that clause.
  • Luckily I've managed to find a source for "but in 2019, the state minister for transport and roads said that such an upgrade would not be needed for six-minute headways".
• Duplicating the terminus is still proposed to increase frequency and reliability Proposed by whom?
  • Added the proposer.
• Would wikilink CBD and South East Light Rail in the first instance in the services section
  • Done.
• The state government's acquisition of Metro Transport Sydney in March 2012 made integrating the light rail ticketing system easier. Rewrite to: The state government's acquisition of Metro Transport Sydney in March 2012 facilitated the integration of the light rail's ticketing system.
  • Done.
• Seven Variotrams, manufactured by Adtranz (formerly ABB) at the Dandenong rolling stock factory in Melbourne for $25 million, entered service in 1997 as the original rolling stock on the line. Suggest splitting this sentence
  • Done.
• No other issues, though would like to ask if there's any more detail on the signalling and the depots. Also, is there a source whether the platforms are side/island?
  • I haven't really found any detail on the signalling beyond what's already there (fixed block, line of sight, automatic train protection). I have managed to find a source for the Lilyfield depot being for maintenance and the Pyrmont depot being for stabling. And there's very little reliably sourced information on each stop, hence why they are not notable and don't have articles. I suppose technicailly there are these stop guides for each stop which have a map showing whether its an island or side platform, but if we have to go through 23 of those to interpret a map to show which stops are island platforms and which are side platforms, then its probably best to not do.
    • I might just add a column to indicate side/island platform arrangement, but that isn't necessary and might veer into WP:NOTGUIDE. On another note, I wonder if you would at least consider adding coordinates for the stops since unlikely they would have articles on their own, but readers might want the information.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 04:07, 9 November 2026 (UTC)
      • TBH I'm not a fan of coordinates either, because they are just not very readable. A map is a lot more usable. Steelkamp (talk) 06:00, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

I didn't expect to comment this much, but personally my recommendation next time is for the article to at least go through GOCE for a better polish in prose. Article seems fine overall. Would do a reread when the above comments are addressed before giving my stance.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 02:03, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough on the GOCE recommendation. I've previously had bad experiences there which is why I didn't go to GOCE this time. I've responded to all your comments.Steelkamp (talk) 08:40, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

A few more replies. It's in better shape now overall.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 04:07, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Decided to place my support. Truthfully again I didn't expect to review this much, and usually if I have to comment more, it means it's doubtful it's actually suited for FAC. However, I think most of my issues are largely within the history section, which has been adequately addressed. The article now reads better in my opinion.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 08:21, 9 November 2026 (UTC)

Hurricanehink

Seeing that I also have an FAC involving a former British colony, I figured I should review

• All numbers over ten should be the number, as in “twenty-three stops”
  • MOS:SPELLNUM says that "Integers greater than nine expressible in one or two words may be expressed either in numerals or in words", so I think twenty-three is fine.
• You should abbreviate units after their first usage, such as “kilometres”
  • I don't think that's strictly necessary. MOS:UNITNAMES implies this is up to discretion.
• ”Following the closure of the remaining section of the goods line” - the Goods Line was previously capitalized, and probably should be here for consistency. I see in the “history” section though that a “goods line” might just be a common term though?
  • As part of the full name "Rozelle–Darling Harbour Goods Line", it should be capitalised (sources seem to capitalise the whole name), but as just the descriptor "goods line", it should be lowercase.
• ”Due to cracking in the Urbos 3 bogies” - are bogies another term for “tram”? It seems like “tram” is used more often in the article
  • So a bogie is the rotating part the wheels attach to. I've added a link to the term.
• ”The line served a number of flour mills” - since the number isn’t known, maybe remove “a number of”?
  • I think "served a number of flour mills" sounds better than "served flour mills", and the exact number isn't important to the light rail line. Alternatively I could replace it with "served several flour mills", but I feel like that's just an equivalent way to phrase it.
• ”The capital cost of the line was $87.5 million” - somewhere in the article should clarify that all costs are in Australian dollars, unadjusted for inflation (presumably)
  • Done, and added note for unadjusted for inflation.
• ”Each of the 23 stops is fully accessible, with level boarding, ramps, and a lift at some stops.” - maybe specify which stops don’t have a lift (presuming this an elevator)? I’m guessing all of them otherwise have level boarding and ramps? My disconnect is that it starts with “each is fully accessible… with a lift at some stops.”
  • All stops have level boarding and full disabled access. Some have ramps to access the platforms and some have lifts. I've reworded the sentence a bit to make things a bit clearer. I'm reluctant to list each stop that has lifts as the sources don't specify which ones in particular do. Each stop does have its own stop guide which shows which stop has a lift, but there's no overarching source listing each stop with a lift and I think its fine to leave at just some stops have lifts and some don't.
• ”All twelve Urbos 3 trams were planned to be operational by late November 2022.” - it’s four years later - were they?
  • Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a source that says all became operational by late November 2022. Not even the Light Rail Safety Investigation Report says so, and I have also searched for questions answered in the NSW Parliament and found nothing. So unfortunately it's open ended.
• Are there any further plans for extensions?
  • Don't think so. Proposals for light rail extensions in Sydney now involve new lines running out of Central or Circular Quay, such as the Parramatta Road to Green Square proposal, which intersects with the L1 but is an entirely new line and would be better suited to be covered at Light rail in Sydney.

All in all a good article, and hopefully you should have no issues with these minor comments. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: Thanks for the review! Steelkamp (talk) 02:32, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

Support. Thanks for the explanations, that all makes sense ("goods line", "a number of", which stops have/don't have lifts). As for the late November 2022 part, it isn't crucial, but have you emailed TfNSW if they had a press release when the trams were all operational? That's the only thing that stands out to me, and it's too minor to oppose over. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:46, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

TfNSW has a search tool for all their media releases here, and I haven't managed to find a media release for when the trams were all operational, and that was by searching for keywords and searching around the relevant dates. Steelkamp (talk) 01:32, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

Source review

Sources seem reliable and consistently formatted. What makes https://glebesociety.org.au/the-past-and-future-trams-of-glebe/ and https://pyrmonthistory.net.au/transport a reliable source? I am a little unsure on what https://www.metrotransport.com.au/ is. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:11, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus:

• https://glebesociety.org.au/the-past-and-future-trams-of-glebe/ and https://pyrmonthistory.net.au/transport are local history groups. A bit borderline. I've decided to remove that sentence though because on further reflection, this is an article about the modern Inner West Light Rail, and sources for the modern Inner West Light Rail don't really discuss the intricacies of the historical tram network.
• https://www.metrotransport.com.au/ was the official website of the line's former operator, Metro Transport Sydney. That domain has since been taken by someone else so the present-day website is unrelated.

Steelkamp (talk) 11:40, 12 November 2026 (UTC)

For the latter source, perhaps setting |url-status=usurped= on the citation templates makes sense? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:39, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Done. Steelkamp (talk) 12:43, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

MSincccc

• FunkMonk It's great to have you back at FAC. I am currently occupied with Chris's FAC and other work on and off-wiki, but I've made a few revisions. Could we include the relevant language template in the mainspace?

Good luck with the nomination. MSincccc (talk) 16:35, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm not sure what you mean with language template? Feel free to add it, I don't think I have a strong opinion about it either way. FunkMonk (talk) 16:59, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

I mean the English variant used like:

{{Use American English}} or {{Use British}} MSincccc (talk) 17:12, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

Ah, yes, since it's a fossil from the US, it's US English. I'll add it with my next round of edits if you don't get to it first. FunkMonk (talk) 17:20, 29 October 2026 (UTC)

Bottom line

• @FunkMonk: The article's in good shape. I hope you have had a fine November so far. I will support the nomination on prose. Best, MSincccc (talk) 10:43, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, and same to you. Your copy edits look good as always! FunkMonk (talk) 12:02, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

I hope the nomination receives a few reviews in the coming days. I look forward to your next article. Best, MSincccc (talk) 12:17, 10 November 2026 (UTC)

RoySmith

Just a quick note about File:Netflix outages reported on January 7–8, 2026.svg. As a techie, I get that log plots can be useful when showing large changes, but I think this will be lost on most of our non-technical WP:AUDIENCE. A linear plot would convey the data better to a wide audience. RoySmith (talk) 14:51, 24 October 2026 (UTC)

Done. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 16:31, 24 October 2026 (UTC)

Source spot-check - pass

Will do. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 21:55, 24 October 2026 (UTC)

This table lists 3 random passages from throughout the article (4.8% of 63 total passages). These passages contain 4 inline citations (4.7% of 85 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 21:55, 24 October 2026 (UTC)

@Brynn Who Likes Editing: Source spot-check is all good. I currently have a nomination for "Señorita" up; you may leave comments there if you wish RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 03:42, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

Travis Mulch

I already said quite a bit during the peer review, mostly pointing out weaker sources (which have since been fixed) and small formatting fixes. I'll be doing a source review in the next week (hopefully by Halloween) since Brynn's a first-time nominator. travis mulch 02:37, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

@Brynn Who Likes Editing Before we get into the source-to-text accuracy, let's see where we're at with the source quality. Cite Unseen reports 44 "generally reliable" sources, 3 "no consensus" sources, and 11 unknown links. Let's go over what's not "generally reliable":

NC

• Rolling Stone's reliable for culture. Good.
• HuffPost is reliable aside from contributor-published articles; Daniel Welsh is the "Entertainment Editor". Good.
• There's a lot of debate around Forbes' overall reliability, and non-staff authored articles are unreliable. Mary Whitfill Roeloffs appears to be a prominent staff member. Consider this the weakest of the three, but Roeloffs checks out. Good.

UL

• Seven articles from Parade are used. Parade used to be an institution, but I'm not entirely sure if that crossed over into the web space. Some people online report the website tends to speculative. How does it check out here? Well, roughly two dozen famous FA BLPs have it cited as a source. Good.
• I addressed this in the peer review, but Hola! USA is of questionable quality, and barely has a precedent for use. Remove.
• The Irish News seems like it's dwindling in popularity and isn't talked about much, and looks to be acceptable as a standard-quality source. Good.
• TV Insider is TV Guide-adjacent, which is already reliable. Good.
• The University of Kent is reputable, but at the end of the day, this is basically a student newspaper. No precedent for use, only comparable example is Liz Truss, which features a subject-matter expert interview. Remove.

travis mulch 21:00, 31 October 2026 (UTC)

Done. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 04:27, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

Hola isn't actually gone, make sure you figure out the source-to-text for that instance that's left. Proper review will follow tomorrow. travis mulch 05:21, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

Removed the last Hola! reference. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 10:47, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

Let's circle back to the Polymarket text we deleted real quick: I did a second pass through sources to see if any of them met the high-quality, reliable sources criteria, and none of them did. The coverage exists there, but it's entirely between no consensus and generally unreliable. I'd say you should continue to keep it off the article. Now, let's get started. travis mulch 18:20, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

This table lists all 63 passages in the article (containing 83 inline citations from 54 unique sources). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. travis mulch 18:21, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

Reference #	Letter	Source	Archive	Status	Notes
Stranger Things, created by the Duffer Brothers for Netflix,
6		rollingstone.com	web.archive.org
released its fifth and final season throughout November and December 2025, culminating with "Chapter Eight: The Rightside Up", the finale, on December 31.
7		abcnews.com	web.archive.org		Nothing about November is said in the article.
Eleven, the show's protagonist, seemingly dies with the destruction of the Upside Down after defeating Vecna, the antagonist. However, Mike Wheeler (her boyfriend) theorizes that she may still be alive and in hiding, leaving her fate ambiguous.
8		teenvogue.com	web.archive.org		Eleven isn't established as the protagonist here, and neither is the suggestion she defeats Vecna seemingly by herself (per phrasing).
The final episode, signally her narrative treatment, had a divisive reception.
9		independent.co.uk	web.archive.org
10		huffingtonpost.co.uk	web.archive.org
After the release of the season's second volume on December 25, concerns over the quality of and possible narrative gaps in the episodes led fans to theorize that hours of content had been cut, in a movement named Cutgate. One such fan created a Change.org petition calling for the release of "unseen footage", and it raised over 400,000 signatures.
11	a	usatoday.com	web.archive.org		Quite a few things wrong here. December 25 is not established as the release date. Narrative gaps are not described. Where does "hours of content" come from? Cutgate isn't referred to by name. The Change.org petition isn't identified as fan-made. Article reports nearly 400,000 signatures.
On Google Docs, a broadly circulated document listed scenes that only made sense if content was cut. Some of the allegations were based on false rumored runtimes for episodes in the second volume; a substantial amount of them were based on the coming-out scene of Will Byers, and the fandom ship named Byler between him and Wheeler.
12		parade.com	web.archive.org
13	a	usatoday.com	web.archive.org
Randy Havens, the actor who portrayed Mr. Clarke, debunked Cutgate on Instagram, saying, "There's no secret Snyder Cut of the show. Please don't believe everything some random ass tells you on the Internet."
13	b	usatoday.com	web.archive.org
14		huffingtonpost.co.uk	web.archive.org
In an interview with the twin showrunners, Matt Duffer denied Netflix's accused interference with the story, saying, "We would be here for hours trying to bat down the stuff that was not true."
15		sea.ign.com	web.archive.org		Make sure you specify the interview was with Variety, since IGN republished this. Also, why is IGN Southeast Asia cited when this is from the main IGN website?
Eventually, Cutgate served as a foundation for Conformity Gate.
16	a	parade.com	web.archive.org
The latter theory was coined by an X (formerly Twitter) user named Jess,
1	b	themarysue.com	web.archive.org
who formed it in an audio livestream with three other theorists on the site, deriving the term from the ‑gate suffix. These fans created theories baring ‑gate following the second volume's release, since the Stranger Things fandom appropriated the suffix (originally regarding the Watergate scandal) as fandom slang.
2	c	inverse.com	web.archive.org
The Conformity in the name came from characters in the show conforming to societal standards, despite its usual subversion. After the release of the finale, the theory cut into the mainstream via social media, specifically X, Reddit, and TikTok.
17	a	irishnews.com	web.archive.org		Doesn't explain how the name was coined, or the actual conformity part, or the subversion.
January 7, 2026 was soon determined for the release of a secret and "real" final episode.
20	b	variety.com	web.archive.org
Some fans warned each other not to be dismayed if nothing would happen.
21		ign.com	web.archive.org
The surge of Netflix users on January 7, checking if the theorized episode had premiered, caused a technical outage from the service. Slightly before 8 p.m. that day, over 1,200 reports were submitted to the website tracker Downdetector. Ultimately, no such episode materialized.
19	b	forbes.com			The article doesn't prove the outage was because of the surge, make it ambiguous.
Netflix and the Duffers did not directly address the theory, though the former updated the biography line of its Stranger Things social media accounts to state, in all caps, that "All episodes of Stranger Things are now playing".
20	c	variety.com	web.archive.org
22		tvinsider.com
The same day, Havens went to Threads to write, "Yes it's the actual finale I'm sorry to all the conspiracy theorists".
11	b	usatoday.com	web.archive.org		Her post date isn't established.
Linnea Berthelsen, who played Kali Prasad, said that she only saw the theory in passing due to not being online often, and clarified that any undisclosed plans would only be known to the Duffers and Millie Bobby Brown, who portrays Eleven.
23		parade.com	web.archive.org		I think the part about "any undisclosed plans" is a bit of a reach given what she says. She says it's a question for them.
Some proponents moved the predicted date to January 12, 2026, the day when the behind-the-scenes, One Last Adventure: The Making of Stranger Things 5, would be released, yet nothing else appeared then.
16	b	parade.com	web.archive.org
24	a	theguardian.com
Martina Radwan, the documentarian behind One Last Adventure, told BBC Newsweek that she thought the theory was bizarre, asking, "Why would [the Duffer Brothers] withhold that?"
25		bbc.com	web.archive.org		It's "Newsbeat", not "Newsweek".
In another interview, she said that she could not speak for the Duffers, but denied the theory anyways and wondered if it was wishful thinking.
26		gamesradar.com
Former proponents of Conformity Gate, disillusioned by this later release, aired many grievances on social media. Parade's Liz Declan wrote that while the production faced a "new wave" of backlash, "it also likely means the end of this long-running string of theories, which began with Cutgate and (presumably) has ended with Conformity Gate."
16	c	parade.com	web.archive.org		The documentary was what led to the backlash.
Among these grievances were a new theory dubbed Divorce Gate, which speculated that Leigh Janiak, Ross Duffer's ex-wife, had written parts of the first four seasons without receiving credit.
27		parade.com	web.archive.org
On December 25, 2025, Netflix released a teaser clip with the caption "Your Future is on its way. #WhatNext Jan 7, 2026". Fans interpreted it as a hint for a ninth episode's release, yet it was simply the presentation of its 2026 slate. Orthodox Christmas was observed on that date, a pattern seen after the fifth season's tendency to drop episodes on major holidays, and fans associated it with the "dark Christmas" teased by the Duffer Brothers.
28	a	thedirect.com	web.archive.org		What does "yet it was simply the presentation of its 2026 slate" refer to? Neither source establishes this.
29	a	teenvogue.com
The number seven holds significance from Will Byers's die roll landing on the same number in the show's first episode to foreshadow capture by a Demogorgon, which is mirrored in the finale's end credits.
30		thewrap.com	web.archive.org
Concurrently, fans have used numerology to contextualize various tidbits involving the number—such as the number of seconds between thunder strikes in the Upside Down.
28	b	thedirect.com	web.archive.org		Source doesn't say the thunder strikes are in the Upside Down specifically.
The theory arose from Vecna's abilities to control characters' minds.
31		cbc.ca	web.archive.org
Vecna would have broken the fourth wall by manipulating what viewers saw, before a reveal that would have effectively undone existing plot points like his death.
20	d	variety.com	web.archive.org
As Today's Scott Stump said, it "represented a frictionless, conformist ending" that was not "breaking with the norm and defying expectations."
32		today.com	web.archive.org		You forgot "external" in the quote.
Fans also suggested that Vecna conjured this illusion immediately after a climactic altercation with Will in "Chapter Four: Sorcerer", starting to control the former as a "traitor-spy" that was once teased by the franchise's marketing.
29	b	teenvogue.com
They pointed to numerous continuity errors, background elements, and Easter eggs
18	b	bbc.co.uk	web.archive.org
across the episodes, including a series of cassette tapes that seemingly spelt "U did not stop me" in Morse code, and Dungeons & Dragons books reading ".mw-parser-output .vanchor>:target~.vanchor-text{background-color:#ebf4ff}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .vanchor>:target~.vanchor-text{background-color:#0f4dc9}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .vanchor>:target~.vanchor-text{background-color:#0f4dc9}}X A LIE" vertically—which was debunked as the shot in the finale actually spelt "XAILE". Will mentions drinking milkshakes at Melvald's, an in-universe town store that was a diner when Vecna was a child. Robin Buckley's girlfriend, Vickie, is absent from the epilogue, possibly because Vecna did not know her well enough to place her in an illusion. However, it is likely that they simply broke up.
20	e	variety.com	web.archive.org
24	b	theguardian.com
29	c	teenvogue.com
The robes for the main cast's graduation are orange, the color supposedly alluding to prison jumpsuits, while they are meant to be an "ugly green" and yellow consistent with the canon novel One Way or Another, which stars Nancy Wheeler. At the ceremony, several extras ostensibly resemble Vecna's style and mannerisms, one raising a blank yellow sign. Another wears a shirt reading "Duffers" in reference to the Duffer Brothers, alleging that they are watching the audience.
28	c	thedirect.com	web.archive.org		"yellow"?
29	d	teenvogue.com
Several cast and crew members of Stranger Things shared their opinions on Conformity Gate since the finale's release. In one such instance, Matthew Modine, who portrayed Martin Brenner (a.k.a. "Papa"), expressed his dislike for the episode on Instagram, and replied "Hoping so for the fans" to a comment about the theory.
33		ign.com	web.archive.org		I don't think anyone other than Matthew Modine is properly established here?
34		nerdist.com	web.archive.org
The theory was referenced in Finn Wolfhard's hosting debut on Saturday Night Live, which featured surprise appearances of his fellow series co-stars Caleb McLaughlin and Gaten Matarazzo and showcased a series of imagined Stranger Things spinoffs. All three also respectively reprised their roles as Mike Wheeler, Lucas Sinclair, and Dustin Henderson. In a final skit set in Iceland (more specifically where Eleven is believed to be alive), Kenan Thompson assumes her role, and Mike resounds the theory's sentiment.
5	b	bleedingcool.com	web.archive.org
35		usatoday.com	web.archive.org
36		parade.com	web.archive.org
Bethy Squires from Vulture described the scene as "to tear down the conformity gate [sic] or whatever."
37		vulture.com
When asked about it in a later interview with The Hollywood Reporter while promoting his starring role in Goat (2026), McLaughlin said, "I think people missed the concept of what the show is when they were like, 'Oh, there's going to be more'", explaining the show's themes of imagination and storytelling.
38		hollywoodreporter.com
39		gizmodo.com	web.archive.org
When the outlet interviewed Matarazzo for starring in Pizza Movie (2026), he recalled walking in New York City when a fan stopped him to ask 'Is it coming out tonight?' and explained that she cancelled her date in favor of the theory. He urged her to return to it, and felt bad over having to deny the release.
40		hollywoodreporter.com	web.archive.org
On an AP News clip for his next starring role in Cold Storage (2026), Joe Keery (Steve Harrington) joked, "It'll be interesting to see when it finally comes out. Don't quote me on that." While his co-star Georgina Campbell sympathized with fans as they were emotionally attached to and grew up with Stranger Things, Keery said seriously, "Let it go."
41		apnews.com	web.archive.org
42		parade.com	web.archive.org
In May, during an Emmys For Your Consideration event in Los Angeles, one of the series executive producers, Shawn Levy, joined a few of the show's cast members to discuss the finale. He praised the ending and stated, "That was baffling and thank God by that point I had learned not to even try engaging with people online," adding that he "felt bad for the world, because they really believed; as much as I believe that Eleven is still alive somewhere by those waterfalls." Noah Schnapp (Will Byers) spoke about fans sending him spam texts to ask if a secret finale would air. Jamie Campbell Bower (Vecna) said "that was fucking crazy" in reference to fan response of a video on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, elaborating: "They were like, 'He's saying something about time and he's stopping on nine!' And I was like, 'No, no, no, we've just come up with this idea in the back of a car to the airport!'"
43		hollywoodreporter.com	web.archive.org
44		gizmodo.com	web.archive.org
Millie Bobby Brown and Jimmy Fallon agreed that the theory was unneeded since the finale was high-quality; the former explained a pact she made with the Duffer Brothers to shroud Eleven's true fate.
45		thewrap.com	web.archive.org
In July, during an event on the sidelines of the 2026 San Diego Comic-Con, Bower was interviewed about Conformity Gate by Entertainment Weekly; he stated, "Anything that we did was like, 'Well, that just proves it,'" and also said that fans would still continue to ask him about the theory. "I'm like, 'It's been six months!' If there is, they're kind of behind," he concluded.
46		ew.com
47		thepinknews.com	web.archive.org
After going viral, Conformity Gate was described by multiple commentaries as a conspiracy theory.
48		ew.com	web.archive.org
The theory could double as a means to mourn the show's conclusion, and CBC Kids News suggested fan fiction as a better way to channel such passion.
49		cbc.ca	web.archive.org
The theory has also been part of a broader criticism for the writing and narrative direction of the fifth season.
19	c	forbes.com			I think extending this to a criticism of the fifth season is a reach.
Eleven's fate was one of the more controversial aspects of the finale, and some fans opined that the ending was "so bad" it could not be real.
50		independent.co.uk	web.archive.org
19	d	forbes.com
AI-generated videos of Mike Wheeler and her reuniting in Iceland gained traction on TikTok.
51	a	bbc.co.uk
Some fans of Byler were unhappy with the pair's final outcome, turning to Conformity Gate in hopes of being validated by the series.
2	e	inverse.com	web.archive.org		Inverse's text literally says (“This is definitely not a Byler theory,” Mika says.)
52		avclub.com	web.archive.org
The first of many popular Facebook accounts latching on Conformity Gate, an image from Netflix Updates promoted it and attracted over 10,000 comments, notably humorous perspectives from the theory's nonbelievers. One wrote, "Vecna's wife wakes up and finds him in the shower and realizes it was all a dream", referencing Bobby Ewing's outcome in the 1980s series Dallas.
18	c	bbc.co.uk	web.archive.org
51	b	bbc.co.uk
Daniel Radcliffe, who played Harry Potter in the Harry Potter film series, praised the finale and said he "feels tired" on behalf of the Duffers debunking rumors, while also joking about a covert Harry Potter sequel.
53		parade.com	web.archive.org
Sophie Clarke, a writer for The Irish News, perceives that the phenomenon created a sense of authority, viewing that the lack of official response from Netflix "rather than cooling speculation, only seemed to legitimise it." Based on how people would carry a herd mentality, she likened it to the reality game show franchise The Traitors.
17	b	irishnews.com	web.archive.org
Bethy Squires wrote for Vulture that it is "eerily similar" to the The Johnlock Conspiracy, a similar theory in which fans of the series Sherlock believed that an additional episode of its fourth series would be released, and hoped that "all this finale disappointment will result in a fix fic [sic] boom."
54		vulture.com	web.archive.org		This is explaining more about Johnlock than the article provides. Also, Squires said the hope for a fix-fic boom, not the fans, which the phrasing implies.
Erica Russell from Teen Vogue said that Conformity Gate is either a "shared psychosis" or a marketing psy-op. She called the possibility "meta", remarking on the existence of "perhaps even a broader vol. 3".
29	e	teenvogue.com			The belief about a ""broader vol. 3"" is not Russell's own.
The Guardian's Benje Goodhart derided Conformity Gate after saying his daughter "fell into" the theory, and said it stemmed from the show's aim for open-endedness and its "degree of sloppiness". Finally, he imagined the possibility of a release on "6/7 January" as a blend of "irritating Gen Z crazes".
24	c	theguardian.com
a.k.a. ConformityGate,
1	a	themarysue.com	web.archive.org	⏳
Conformitygate,
2	a	inverse.com	web.archive.org	⏳
or conformity gate;
3		glamour.com	web.archive.org	⏳
it can also be hashtagged
4		themarysue.com	web.archive.org	⏳
5	a	bleedingcool.com	web.archive.org	⏳
On January 7, under its hashtag, as reported by Inverse.
2	d	inverse.com	web.archive.org	⏳
BBC Bitesize stated there were 52,000 posts under it by January 12.
18	a	bbc.co.uk	web.archive.org	⏳
Some sources use the less detailed descriptor of Eastern Time, yet an article by Forbes's staff details Eastern Standard Time (EST).
19	a	forbes.com		⏳
Fans chose it to mirror the release time of the fifth season's three segments.
20	a	variety.com	web.archive.org	⏳
No text found: citation may be in an infobox or table
2	b	inverse.com	web.archive.org	⏳

@Brynn Who Likes Editing, so far, there are some mistakes in Background (which I assume have to do with past unreliable sources being removed) that need to be addressed, particularly with USA Today (c. 11) and The Irish News (c. 17). Ping/reply when you've added fixes, source review will continue. travis mulch 21:00, 1 November 2026 (UTC)

I've completed the text's source review. Note that it's mostly minor fixes that are needed across the board, but some citations have questionable mistakes. Try to address everything mentioned while making the necessary fixes. travis mulch 00:58, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

"I don't think anyone other than Matthew Modine is properly established here?" What do you mean by that?

"I think extending this to a criticism of the fifth season is a reach." Okay. Roeloffs writes "“So now that we all know that the ending was just horrible and lazy writing,” one fan wrote on X, with another adding “conformitygate is such a brutal theory because it’s just pointing out every plot hole and inconsistency in the show itself.”" which I think counts as criticism. Nevertheless, I added another source to back the claim up.

@Travis Mulch: Other than that, I dealt with everything. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 21:35, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

Is ComicBook.com the best citation you can find for fifth season criticisms? Also, the formatting's just a bit confusing because I know you're framing the cast & crew responses as a blanket statement, but it'd be ideal if you cited specific sources (that you do later down) to emphasize that it was, in fact, several cast and crew members. Otherwise it's, just, well, "who is it?" until you actually get to their names. Let me go through the source review list. travis mulch 21:40, 2 November 2026 (UTC)

ComicBook.com is not the best citation for fifth season criticisms, but AFAIK it's one of the best for showing Conformity Gate as an extension of these criticisms. Other than that, I've done your suggestions. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 06:25, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

I'd personally suggest looking for a better source than ComicBook.com here. Other than that, you forgot to link Variety and BBC Newsbeat, since you mention them once. Support! travis mulch 17:47, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

Will do! In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 17:53, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

Done. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 17:58, 3 November 2026 (UTC)

Generalissima

Recusing to do a prose review. Expect it within the next week. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 18:23, 30 October 2026 (UTC)

• Some publications view Conformity Gate as a conspiracy theory, and it has sparked dialogue around fandom mentality and the season more broadly Optional, but I think "Conformity Gate has sparked dialogue around the season and fandom mentality, with some publications viewing it as a conspiracy theory" would read a little better.
• Might it do good to give a one-sentence summary of what Stranger Things is about?
• that lots of content had been cut "lots of" seems a bit colloquial to me. "much content"?
• perhaps introducing Threads as "the social media website Threads" or something would be good, because it's relatively obscure.
• to state in all caps that "All episodes of Stranger Things are now playing" bit confusing to say "in all caps" and then give the quote in sentence case. MoS seems to allow for such stylization to be preserved in quotes when it is clearly used for emphasis, so I think we could just give the quote in caps.
• fans associated it with the "dark Christmas" teased by the Duffer Brothers this is a bit confusingly introduced. If the Duffer Brothers had teased a "dark Christmas", that should be the start of the sentence; otherwise, it looks like it's reintroducing information we already know.-G
• They pointed to numerous continuity errors i'd say "fans" again here.

Rest seems fine to me. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 22:36, 5 November 2026 (UTC)

"MoS seems to allow for such stylization to be preserved in quotes when it is clearly used for emphasis, so I think we could just give the quote in caps."

MOS:CONFORM says If it clearly indicates emphasis, use italic emphasis {{em}} or, in an already-italic passage, boldface with {{strong}}. So I changed it to boldface using {{strong}}, because Stranger Things is an italic phrase already in the passage.

Thanks for the help, I hope you like the improvements I made for the prose. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 07:56, 6 November 2026 (UTC)

The changes look good to me! Support. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:26, 11 November 2026 (UTC)

Crystal Drawers

Always happy to see more high quality work being done for Stranger Things articles! I ask that you please ping me if I have not started this review by Friday :) Crystal Drawers 🎖️ ^{(wanna talk?)} 17:17, 8 November 2026 (UTC)

I began the review below. I noticed an issue with the prose’s Fandom-like flow at points as mentioned in my “Background” review. I’ll finish up the review tonight, but I would recommend ensuring the rest of the article doesn’t suffer from the same issues Crystal Drawers 🎖️ ^{(wanna talk?)} 15:04, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Why is Cutgate italicized at some points but not others? - It's only italicized in its first mention in the lead, and its first mention in the body in line with MOS:WAW.

Why is the quote box needed? There’s only a small sentence in the previous sentence about Byler so this feels unnecessary - A large part of the Inverse source is about how from an outside perspective it may look like a "Byler theory", but the creators of the theory have noted that it has moved into being for general audiences as well. The quote succinctly shows that point.

Other than that, I've finished your suggestions so far. I'll look for a good source to describe Robin or Vickie in the Complied evidence section. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 13:24, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

@Crystal Drawers: pinging you because you said you'd finish the review soon, sorry if this is bothering you. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 18:32, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Lead:

- Specify it’s the "fifth and final season"

- "created by the antagonist Vecna" — The reader may not know who this is and why it’s related to the illusion stuff, could you quickly mention his psionic powers here?

- "no new episode materialized" — Materialized is an odd word to use here, "released" is fine

- "The influx of Netflix users were tied to the streaming service crashing that day" is an overly wordy sentence, could you make it more straightforward?

- "and the season more broadly" — Consider "and the show's fifth season more broadly"

- Could you quickly mention what day/month Stranger Things Day takes place in

Background:

- Specify that Netflix is a streaming service, stuff like this is important so a reader who could be unfamiliar will be able to understand it without having to go to another article

- Could you briefly explain that Eleven has powers?

- "However, Mike Wheeler (her boyfriend) theorizes"— Consider "However, her boyfriend Mike Wheeler later theorizes"

- "only made sense if cut" — I feel "allegedly only made sense if cut" or something else along those lines is better to avoid biased language

- "between him and Wheeler" — You don’t need to refer to a fictional character by their last name, call him Mike

- Why do we need quotes from both Havens and Duffer at the end of the second paragraph? I’m not sure about either but having both definitely feels excessive

- Why is Cutgate italicized at some points but not others?

- Why do we need to know what 8 pm EST is in UTC?

- Some parts here feel very Fandom-like and not too professional and unbiased, stuff like "the ending's conformism" and many characters being introduced without any background information especially stand out

- Why is the quote box needed? There’s only a small sentence in the previous sentence about Byler so this feels unnecessary

Image review - pass

• File:Matt and Ross Duffer (crop).png: CC license and proper caption, but the alt-text could be improved. What are they doing? How do they look? Which way are they facing (looking left)?
• File:Netflix outages reported in the last 24 hours (linear graph).svg: CC license, proper alt text, and proper caption.
• File:Matthew Modine responds to Instagram comments.jpg: Proper alt-text and caption, but I have some concerns about the copyright. I am inclined to believe the text isn't creative enough to be copyrighted, but Apple emojis are definitely copyrighted. I believe Twitter emojis are released under a CC license, so maybe those can be replaced for the fire and clapping hands?

Hello! Since there hasn't been an image review yet, I've decided to do one. There are some concerns I found above. Also, please ping me once you respond. Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 03:19, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

Thanks. I've already updated the alts for the first image, and I'm deciding on using Microsoft Fluent Emojis. They are under the MIT license and would be the easiest for me to use considering that I have a Windows device. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 06:31, 13 November 2026 (UTC)

The images look fine now. I can support on images. Good work! Dragonhawk12 (talk) (Guestbook) (Wikicats) 21:42, 14 November 2026 (UTC)

Drive-by comments from Brynn Who Likes Editing

A lot of them content under the Commercial performance heading reads very mechanically as prose and would probably work better as a list or table. I'm new to FAC, but if anyone else here backs me up them please do this. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 05:25, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

@Brynn Who Likes Editing: Other FA music articles repeat peak positions in commercial performance (see, for example: "Bad Idea Right?" and "Easy on Me"). RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 06:05, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, but those article sections don't seem to be as mechanical and disengaging. They're broken up into sentences with a flow; yours is just one sentence-list per paragraph. Maybe do it as a table? Again, I'm new to FAC, so you should probably wait until someone else agrees with me before doing that. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 06:09, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

Comments by magiciandude (Erick)

• You don't need to list every performance of the song in the lead.
  • I assume this is referring to the Australian Urban thing, which I removed.
• " The song has been described as a "Spanish number" with a "Latin-flavored" cut beat." By whom? A one reviewer or several critics?
  • Described as a Spanish number by the Centralian Advocate and with a Latin-flavored cut beat by the Sunday Republican.
• Audio sample needs a critical commentary to justify WP:NFCC. You can use my FA article Romance (Luis Miguel album) as an example.
  • Done.
• Speaking of critical commentary, I noticed there's none for the music video itself. Did critics liked or disliked it? If none can be found, I suggest searching for "Best/worst video lists by Justin Timberlake" that might have a reception on the video.
  • There was a review from a student newspaper, but I removed it. Added two rankings.
• The Commercial performance could also include critical commentary such as what I did with my FA El Alma al Aire. Even a mention of the song's success from an article by Billboard would suffice. Of course, if you can't find any, there's completely understandable.
  • With a song like "Señorita", there really wouldn't be any mention of its success.
• "'Señorita'" received mostly positive reviews from music critics". This statement itself needs to be sourced. I would suggest removing it if you cannot find it.
  • Removed.

That's all pops up to me at the moment. Erick (talk) 20:49, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

@Magiciandude: Replies above. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 22:05, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

Good job! I would just add "The song has been described as a "Spanish number" with a "Latin-flavored" cut beat" by reviewer(s)/music journalist(s), or something like that. That's what I was referring to on my question about who called it a "Latin flavored". Erick (talk) 22:10, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

Done. RedShellMomentum^{talk that talk to me} 22:15, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

@RedShellMomentum Support Great job! Erick (talk) 22:24, 25 October 2026 (UTC)

Spot check - pass

This table lists 7 random passages from throughout the article (7.5% of 93 total passages). These passages contain 7 inline citations (5.5% of 128 in the article). Reference numbers refer to this revision. Generated with the Veracity user script. In solidarity, Brynn Who Likes Editing | talk w/ me! 07:10, 27 October 2026 (UTC)